What aspect of "performance" do you prefer?

[FC]

Yesterday, at our first Autox I came to somewhat of a conlcusion as I worked the cones (plenty of time to think). If I had to pick, I'd go for an Elise vs a Corvette... at least now.

Clearly, comming fresh off an Autox is certainly being biased, but I felt my car offered adequate power and having a vastly superior handling car would just be awesome.

This is not to say a 'Vette would not handle much better than my car, but I think the nimbleness of the Elise would make for a more fun car at the AutoX and in the street. On the other hand a Vette would do great at an autox and even better at a track, but its power is almost excessive in the street (loosely quoting lemming).

Do you prefer great power/torque with good handling, or great handling with good ower/torque? Or would you strive to find something that balances handling and power/torque more evenly?

[Doug]

Handling over power (after all it's what I've got now with the M3)

[rost12]

Since this world is not perfect, I'll settle for power over handling...

Relatively speaking, of course, E39 M is still a nicely balanced, if heavy, car and I wouldn't go for anything that handles any worse...

[clyde]

Handling over power (after all it's what I've got now with the...

...RX-8)

[clyde]

Since this world is not perfect, I'll settle for power over handling...


In that non perfect world of day to day driving that we live in, excessive power is more useful and easier to tap than excessive handling capability. Even then, massive bottom end grunt is better/more useful than top end power (see CSB L98 vs BMW S54) for regular driving.

[lemming]

i think that for auto-x, power isn't as key as balance and the driver's own ability.

it's why boxsters typically do quite well at auto-x.

i've never competed in an auto-x, but have driven a parking lot course (STL) and power isn't all that useful if you cannot put it down and if the car won't turn.

before MBR ran yesterday, it was a pretty neat thing to watch in the non_BMW section. the Evo was the exception, but the STi looked horrible, the mustang GT was not great, but the boxster really looked in its element. there was an S60 R there on R compounds. add onto the car a really large driver (not arnold large, tom arnold large) and the car was really all over the joint.

so for auto-X, i'd choose something light, tossable with a high redline.

for the track is an altogether different proposition. handling is certainly up there, but i've been in an e30m3 when an e46m3 or 330i blew by us. power is what i'd choose first on the track with "adequate handling".

for the street it's a crapshoot because the cars are all way beyond what commuting requires.

[lip277]

Handling over power (after all it's what I've got now with the M3)

Lack of power in your M3?

You wanna drive my 2002?
:lol:

[SpaceMonk]

i think that for auto-x, power isn't as key as balance and the driver's own ability.

it's why boxsters typically do quite well at auto-x.

i've never competed in an auto-x, but have driven a parking lot course (STL) and power isn't all that useful if you cannot put it down and if the car won't turn.

before MBR ran yesterday, it was a pretty neat thing to watch in the non_BMW section. the Evo was the exception, but the STi looked horrible, the mustang GT was not great, but the boxster really looked in its element. there was an S60 R there on R compounds. add onto the car a really large driver (not arnold large, tom arnold large) and the car was really all over the joint.

so for auto-X, i'd choose something light, tossable with a high redline.

for the track is an altogether different proposition. handling is certainly up there, but i've been in an e30m3 when an e46m3 or 330i blew by us. power is what i'd choose first on the track with "adequate handling".

for the street it's a crapshoot because the cars are all way beyond what commuting requires.
I definitely agree with this. I'd still say auto-x is 90% (or so) driver ability and the rest is the car's ability/potential. Regarding what one would want for a track car, it also depends on the track.

But one thing to keep in mind is that the cars which look/sound fast on an autocross course aren't necessarily getting the best times. Usually the smoothest runs will get the best times, and those often appear to be slow to observers.

[FC]

i think that for auto-x, power isn't as key as balance and the driver's own ability.

it's why boxsters typically do quite well at auto-x.

i've never competed in an auto-x, but have driven a parking lot course (STL) and power isn't all that useful if you cannot put it down and if the car won't turn.

before MBR ran yesterday, it was a pretty neat thing to watch in the non_BMW section. the Evo was the exception, but the STi looked horrible, the mustang GT was not great, but the boxster really looked in its element. there was an S60 R there on R compounds. add onto the car a really large driver (not arnold large, tom arnold large) and the car was really all over the joint.

so for auto-X, i'd choose something light, tossable with a high redline.

for the track is an altogether different proposition. handling is certainly up there, but i've been in an e30m3 when an e46m3 or 330i blew by us. power is what i'd choose first on the track with "adequate handling".

for the street it's a crapshoot because the cars are all way beyond what commuting requires.

More and more I realize just how wonderfully well-rounded my 330i is. Pretty good power, torque, handling, looks, comfort, refinement, quality, etc. It is just one hell of a commuter car. I also think I paid a fair price for it at $36k. Nothing out there can touch it for the money.

[ayn]

Z06's are great for track and auto-x too:

yesterday's Austin autox results: http://www.spokes.org/Results.aspx?Event=22&ResultsType=Results

[clyde]

Z06's are great for track and auto-x too:

yesterday's Austin autox results: http://www.spokes.org/Results.aspx?Event=22&ResultsType=Results

Are you sure that's yesterday?

Final Results - Spokes Event #1 - Tech Ridge
Sunday, February 22, 2004

[ayn]

oh, wrong date, oh well... LOL...

[undefined]

:scratch:

[lemming]

I cannot wait to autocross the C5.

Should be fun. Not easy, but fun.

[FC]

I cannot wait to autocross the C5.

Should be fun. Not easy, but fun.

I bet. :D

[nate]

I cannot wait to autocross the C5.

Should be fun. Not easy, but fun.

I thought that you only went to the track?

[lemming]

I cannot wait to autocross the C5.

Should be fun. Not easy, but fun.

I thought that you only went to the track?

huh?

i've never competed in an autocross, but have run several different courses. it's nowhere near as fun as multiple laps during DE's, but it's better than nuthin'.

you're mistaking me for someone else.

[Roadstergal]

Z06s are awesome in the handling department.

Handling.Handling.Handling.Handling.Handling.Handl ing.Handling.Handling.Handling.Handling.

You can have a car that's too powerful for the rest of the car to deal with (more power than the brakes, or tires or...). You can't have a car that handles too well for the rest of it.

And a car that handles well and is down on power will beat a crappy-handling car with tons of power anywhere but a drag strip.

And they're more fun. :)