View Full Version : MCS, Jeep, ZHP, sportscar?
Yes, I know, more waffling.
I know that I currently have all I need. A roomy family wagon and a versatile sporty sedan. But I'm (we're) spoiled, so I want more.
Here's what I'd love to have in an ideal world:
-Family car (preferably a sporty wagon)
-Sportscar (for fun)
-MCS (for my wife/city car/commuter if needed)
-Jeep (for very bad weather/family top-down fun/outdoorsy activities/mild towing/satisfies the "must have one automatic car in the household" req from wife/etc)
-*Sports sedan (not needed if family car is sporty enough and MT)
My main issue with replacing the ZHP with a MCS is that the ZHP offers an element of refined performance I can use daily that neither the MCS nor the V70R can match. That silky smooth I6, all the comforts, etc. Maybe I'm nostalgic, maybe a nicely loaded MCS would not feel quite so different. I dunno. The V70R does offer refined performance, but needless to say, it's not as willing to play/capable as the ZHP.
Again, I'm sure that a ZHP for MCS+sportscar is a deal at face value that is hard to turn down, but the key here is that the sportscar will not be used as often as the ZHP is used right now.
Now, seemingly out of left field is my weird obession with a Wrangler ultd. I've thought about it a lot, and as insane as I'm sure it sounds to people here, I would actually get to drive that car a whole bunch more than a sportscar and get to do so in the company of my family/dog. In a way, it would also offer a far different experience than a Boxster would, for example. And while seldom, a Wrangler is able to do things I may need to do that no other car I own could, as opposed to a sportscar.
The thought of buying a Wrangler over a sportscar (which has crossed my mind before and I have posted about it here) is creeping back in my mind. Now I'm thinking that for the money I was planning to spend on a 987S (or maybe a bit more, I could actually own a new Wrangler and a cheaper sportscar (like an old miata or S2000 or even a '00 986S). It would be crazy to own 4 cars, but none of them (MCS/JKL ultd/very used sportscar) would be a very costly mistake if I had to sell it, and it would allow me to really gauge what I want/use. Perhaps I find out that a sportscar makes a nice paperweight until the kids are older.:dunno:
My wife is on board with the idea of a V70R/MCS/Jeep garage. Adding a cheaper sportscar as a 4th car may be pushing it though. We'll see.
Finally, as a reminder, a wrangler would allow the V70R replacement to be a MT wagon.
OK, bring it on. Thoughts?
Sharp11
08-04-2008, 10:25 AM
Fc, you make my head spin ...... ;)
rumatt
08-04-2008, 10:48 AM
OK, bring it on. Thoughts?
Seek help.
Your "ideal world" only has you owning 5 cars? :speechle: :p
OK, bring it on. Thoughts?
Just do something.
Please.
That's a lot to read.
An MCS is not refined, and it would feel very different from the 330, but is that a bad thing? For punching around town, the MCS is a better car. It's smaller, it's more nimble, and it's more fun. Yeah, it's louder on the highway. Yeah, the seats are plastic (in mine, anyway). Yeah, the trim is not as expensive looking. But I don't take it on long trips, and it's enough fun that I don't care about the other stuff. It's got Bluetooth and Satrad, and those are the only gee gaws and "refinement" I need.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think that it might make sense to have *two* Minis for everyday commuting, and a third, bigger car for the occasional road trip/trip to Home Depot. That way you wouldn't have to use a 400 hp V8 or similar to haul around two tons of metal in everyday driving.
I don't understand your thinking re: Jeeps. It looks like lupinsea has a blast with his, and to each his own, but driving one of those things is a unique form of punishment that I have no desire to endure. The only place they make sense is off road, and there's dirt and bugs and stuff off road. I'd rather have a Mini.
Your "ideal world" only has you owning 5 cars? :speechle: :p
No!:eeps:
I'd actually own a few more if I won a big jackpot.:D
Just do something.
Please.
:lol::lol::lol:
Aww come on... This board isn't that busy today.;)
That's a lot to read.
An MCS is not refined, and it would feel very different from the 330, but is that a bad thing? For punching around town, the MCS is a better car. It's smaller, it's more nimble, and it's more fun. Yeah, it's louder on the highway. Yeah, the seats are plastic (in mine, anyway). Yeah, the trim is not as expensive looking. But I don't take it on long trips, and it's enough fun that I don't care about the other stuff. It's got Bluetooth and Satrad, and those are the only gee gaws and "refinement" I need.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think that it might make sense to have *two* Minis for everyday commuting, and a third, bigger car for the occasional road trip/trip to Home Depot. That way you wouldn't have to use a 400 hp V8 or similar to haul around two tons of metal in everyday driving.
I actually WANT the plastic seats. Anyhow, I do only drive in short bursts, so I don't need the MCS to be smooth it the hwy. And as I've said before, perhaps change is good.
I don't understand your thinking re: Jeeps. It looks like lupinsea has a blast with his, and to each his own, but driving one of those things is a unique form of punishment that I have no desire to endure. The only place they make sense is off road, and there's dirt and bugs and stuff off road. I'd rather have a Mini.
Well, I would also have the mini. Think of the jeep as a snowmobile or a boat. I'd love to go off-rading with it (and maybe will later on). For now, primarily it would be a cool family convertible that I can use on torrential downpours/blizzards and when I go mtn biking/hiking/camping which I want to start doing again next year. And it satisfies childhood dreams too. I know you guys won't understand and that's ok. Maybe it would be a mistake, maybe the best move ever. If it sucks, I won't completely get killed on resale.
John V
08-04-2008, 01:23 PM
I don't understand the Jeep fascination. You're not going to take it off road and they suck on-road. Plus they're not particularly safe for hauling kiddies around in. So just get over it.
You are obviously sick of the V70. Get rid of it and get a Mini. Keep the ZHP. It's worth more to you than you'll get on the used market for it and it's a handy vehicle for hauling kiddies around in. If BMW ever introduces a 335 wagon, buy it to replace the ZHP.
Then just wait it out. If you still feel the desire to buy a weekend fun car, go S2000/Boxster/Miata shopping. It's always fun to go test drive those cars anyway.
E39 M5 + Lotus Elise = problem solved:ack::dunno::D
Everytime the Elise comes up I get excited about it. Then I start reading, thinking, and I always end up giving up the idea.
I don't understand the Jeep fascination. You're not going to take it off road and they suck on-road. Plus they're not particularly safe for hauling kiddies around in. So just get over it.
I need to drive the damn Jeep to see if it's all it seems to be.
You are obviously sick of the V70. Get rid of it and get a Mini. Keep the ZHP. It's worth more to you than you'll get on the used market for it and it's a handy vehicle for hauling kiddies around in. If BMW ever introduces a 335 wagon, buy it to replace the ZHP.
I can't have just the ZHP and the MCS. We need a family car. And for what the V70R is probably worth right now, nothing comes close. So the V70R is staying until there is little to no warranty left. And then it will have to be replaced by some other kind of roomy family vehicle. That is non-negotiable. And a 3er wagon is too small b/c of the dog. Selling the BMW for high teens is what makes this so difficult. It really is a lot of car for the money. If I had no kids and could use a sportscar as a DD, I wouldn't think about it for very long at all. But needing to drop of the kid(s) at daycare 4 days a week changes things.
Then just wait it out. If you still feel the desire to buy a weekend fun car, go S2000/Boxster/Miata shopping. It's always fun to go test drive those cars anyway.
This part I agree on.
John V
08-04-2008, 02:02 PM
I can't have just the ZHP and the MCS. We need a family car. And for what the V70R is probably worth right now, nothing comes close. So the V70R is staying until there is little to no warranty left. And then it will have to be replaced by some other kind of roomy family vehicle. That is non-negotiable. And a 3er wagon is too small b/c of the dog. Selling the BMW for high teens is what makes this so difficult. It really is a lot of car for the money. If I had no kids and could use a sportscar as a DD, I wouldn't think about it for very long at all. But needing to drop of the kid(s) at daycare 4 days a week changes things.
This part I agree on.
Then keep the V70R (even though you don't like it) and keep the ZHP (even though you're bored with it) and just go buy a sports car. Or a Mini. Whichever tickles your fancy. There are no good sporty wagons out there (in my eyes) and really no better sports sedan than the 330, especially for the money. :dunno:
Then keep the V70R (even though you don't like it) and keep the ZHP (even though you're bored with it) and just go buy a sports car. Or a Mini. Whichever tickles your fancy. There are no good sporty wagons out there (in my eyes) and really no better sports sedan than the 330, especially for the money. :dunno:
In essence yes. I don't like the V70R, but it's a very good car for what it's for (except for the low ground clearance). But make me drive it everyday and yeah, I'd go nuts.
Maybe I should go back to the original plan. Keep both cars and add the sportscar. Then go from there. That plan seems to always stick. We'll see.
John V
08-04-2008, 02:45 PM
There you go. Problem solved. So easy!
lupinsea
08-04-2008, 02:49 PM
Why not use a 4 door Wrangler as a family / utility vehicle? I think it seats five. Maybe take the kid seats down to the dealer and see how they fit? And you can get it in a manual or automatic.
It may not be sexy or refined but it does fill a lot of roles.
And while it "sucks" on the road that's subjective as far as driving experience goes. It's certainly different. Some people can't stand it. Some like the uniqueness.
It's sort of like the MCS vs 330i comparison. Sure the 330i might be a more refined and powerful car but the MCS is still fun to drive and different. Different character to the car. Different is not necessarily bad.
The Jeep will be different and that's not necessarily bad.
I don't understand the Jeep fascination.
"It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand." :lol:
As much as I like the performance / sporty cars . . . I gave up my beloved Miata rather than the Jeep to get our house. And if it came down to it I'd give up the ZHP before the Jeep. And if it comes down to Jeep vs. future sports car I'd take the Jeep. There's something about it that seems very elemental to me and its hard to imagine not having one now.
In a rational world does the Wrangler make sense for FC? Most likely not. As in, he probably doesn't "need" the offroad capabilities and the foul weather stuff can be handled by other vehicles properly equipped. But there's something to it that's obviously catching his attention. I'm pretty confident he'd find many many uses for it.
That said. . . wow, sounds like FC will need to add on another garage! That's a whole lotta cars.
That said. . . wow, sounds like FC will need to add on another garage! That's a whole lotta cars.
I've got 3. The Jeep can sleep outside.;)
Anyhow, I need to drive the jeep.
In the end though, the 330i will not be around indefinitely. It will eventually get replaced by an MCS. Probably when our youngest can go FF (anywhere from 2 months from now to 2-3 years). So hanging on to the 330i is temporary no matter what. I envision replacing the V70R with a next gen 5er xiT (MT) that I can look forward to driving daily almost as much as the 330i.
The Jeep, being a drop top and a slushie, would allow for a MT wagon and a hardtop sportscar.
A bit OT: more and more I realize that my wife will never want to drive with the top down and wonder if I should just aim for a Cayman.
lupinsea
08-04-2008, 03:04 PM
It'd be perfectly happy outside. Mine has been outside it's entire life (2001 model year). Neither the original owner, nor I have kept it in a garage.
Oh.
No leaks from the roof, door, or anywhere else either (none ever). And the soft top is still holding up amazingly well after the last 7 1/2 years. Especially with all the "tree rash".
Actually, the soft top is durable and nice enough (to me) that I'd never bother getting a hard top.
lip277
08-04-2008, 03:04 PM
Your "ideal world" only has you owning 5 cars? :speechle: :p
hehe - I have 6.
What's wrong with just 5...???
:D:D:D
Yeah yeah.... I know.
Actually - We're going to be selling the Yukon soon... As soon as I can get it cleaned up.
clyde
08-05-2008, 12:15 AM
OK, bring it on. Thoughts?
Why not bring back one of the many earlier threads where you've asked the posed the same question with a post like, "I know that I am the analysis paralysis poster boy, but I still don't know what to do? Any help?'
Your wife will never ride in the Jeep more than like five times. You heard it here first. I don't blame her. I think it's a very weak link in your current thinking.
Your best bet is to get what you want for your car and get what your wife wants for the rest of them.
If you do get a jeep, it should be a Cherokee or whatever they call them now and it should replace the Volvo. And you will still regret it every time you drive it.
3LOU5
08-05-2008, 01:45 AM
Dude, no offense but.....
http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg
:beatdeadh:beatdeadh:beatdeadh:beatdeadh:beatdeadh :beatdeadh:beatdeadh:beatdeadh:beatdeadh:beatdeadh :beatdeadh:beatdeadh:beatdeadh
:rolleyes:
Um, feel free to not open or read the thread. I've had other (more interesting) threads go completely ignored. I won't get down over it.
Your wife will never ride in the Jeep more than like five times.
That's probably true.
I miss (the idea of) my wrangler all the time. They are great fun to bounce around in, and I mean bounce literally, but that gets old quickly on all but the shortest drives. There is definitely space for a wrangler in my "dream" garage, but it's not one of the top 4 or 5.
I would also do some research on legal off-road areas near you, I suspect you won't find much of anything.
That's probably true.
I miss (the idea of) my wrangler all the time. They are great fun to bounce around in, and I mean bounce literally, but that gets old quickly on all but the shortest drives. There is definitely space for a wrangler in my "dream" garage, but it's not one of the top 4 or 5.
I would also do some research on legal off-road areas near you, I suspect you won't find much of anything.
Unfortunately, you are right, there isn't much nearby. I've gone back to one of my older ideas. Picking up a cheap 4Runner or JGC (cherokees are overpriced) to do all the Wrnagler can do (with mroe room) except for the whole top-down thing. But dammit, one day I WILL own one.
lupinsea
08-05-2008, 04:02 PM
I would also do some research on legal off-road areas near you, I suspect you won't find much of anything.
I forgot you were in Boston, FC. The east cost and NE doesn't have much ORV areas compared to the rest of the country. But, there are some areas, private ORV parks, and annual Jeep Jamborees and such.
A quick search turned up:
All Wheels Offroad Park (http://www.myspace.com/lewiston4x4) - In Lewiston, Maine. Looks to be 142 miles away, or 2.5 hr. 300 acres, camping. Might be good for a weekend / overnight.
Stud Mill Rd, Maine - Not sure what this is but on JF it looks like a gravel road with a lot of off shoots for exploring.
Strattford / Rochester, NH - I hear there's stuff around here for exploration, too.
Windsor, CT - Looks like a 2-day event called Trailfest is starting up August 15-17. They'll be running on private lands (with permission).
Rausch Creek ORV Park, PA - Said to be a pretty intense area, very popular with the JF crowd. 30 miles of tough trails. Holy crap. 370 mi from Boston (6+ hr drive). Looks like this would be a multi-day trip given all the driving to-and-from.
Wind Gap, PA - not much known about this. A bit closer at 290 miles and 5+ hrs drive time. But it's there.
Vermont - Sounds like there are some trails there. Not big ORV area, per se, but various trails around the state. Might make for an interesting weekend of outdoor exploring with a mix of trail and road driving. Sounds like if you join a VT club there are access benefits to private land over there for some wheel'n. Also, sounds like the trails they do have are pretty good, rated 4 on a scale of 5 with 5 being the toughest. Just not sure how long or extensive things are.
New York - Looks like there are a bunch of places. A number of guys from around NY state have good photos of the trails they ride posted on JF
If this is something you'd want to get into then:
Be prepared to travel to the ORV area. Sounds like they're spread out and several hours from Boston. This probably turns an ORV run into an over-night camping trip (or hotel stay).
Get involved with various clubs, they seem to have arrangements for land access which should expand the number of trails available to you. Given the small states in the NE you might need to joint various out of state clubs.
Sounds also like there are a lot of back-wood gravel and dirt roads for exploration. They're not really technical "4x4 trails" but they provide access to the Northeast's back country.
East Cost 4 Wheel Drive Association (http://www.ec4wda.org) may be a resource you'd want to look into. I haven't nosed around their site but they might be helpful in listing the various clubs or organizations.
Otherwise, offroad opportunities seem limited, but not impossible.
I forgot you were in Boston, FC. The east cost and NE doesn't have much ORV areas compared to the rest of the country. But, there are some areas, private ORV parks, and annual Jeep Jamborees and such.
A quick search turned up:
All Wheels Offroad Park (http://www.myspace.com/lewiston4x4) - In Lewiston, Maine. Looks to be 142 miles away, or 2.5 hr. 300 acres, camping. Might be good for a weekend / overnight.
Stud Mill Rd, Maine - Not sure what this is but on JF it looks like a gravel road with a lot of off shoots for exploring.
Strattford / Rochester, NH - I hear there's stuff around here for exploration, too.
Windsor, CT - Looks like a 2-day event called Trailfest is starting up August 15-17. They'll be running on private lands (with permission).
Rausch Creek ORV Park, PA - Said to be a pretty intense area, very popular with the JF crowd. 30 miles of tough trails. Holy crap. 370 mi from Boston (6+ hr drive). Looks like this would be a multi-day trip given all the driving to-and-from.
Wind Gap, PA - not much known about this. A bit closer at 290 miles and 5+ hrs drive time. But it's there.
Vermont - Sounds like there are some trails there. Not big ORV area, per se, but various trails around the state. Might make for an interesting weekend of outdoor exploring with a mix of trail and road driving. Sounds like if you join a VT club there are access benefits to private land over there for some wheel'n. Also, sounds like the trails they do have are pretty good, rated 4 on a scale of 5 with 5 being the toughest. Just not sure how long or extensive things are.
New York - Looks like there are a bunch of places. A number of guys from around NY state have good photos of the trails they ride posted on JF
If this is something you'd want to get into then:
Be prepared to travel to the ORV area. Sounds like they're spread out and several hours from Boston. This probably turns an ORV run into an over-night camping trip (or hotel stay).
Get involved with various clubs, they seem to have arrangements for land access which should expand the number of trails available to you. Given the small states in the NE you might need to joint various out of state clubs.
Sounds also like there are a lot of back-wood gravel and dirt roads for exploration. They're not really technical "4x4 trails" but they provide access to the Northeast's back country.
East Cost 4 Wheel Drive Association (http://www.ec4wda.org) may be a resource you'd want to look into. I haven't nosed around their site but they might be helpful in listing the various clubs or organizations.
Otherwise, offroad opportunities seem limited, but not impossible.
Thanks for the info, lup. WAAAY down the line we'd like to get a small vacation house in the north. If I use that as base of operations, off roading may not be a multi-hour affair.
rumatt
08-06-2008, 01:26 AM
WAAAY down the line
There's a shocker.
Um, feel free to not open or read the thread.
You asked for thoughts... he gave you thoughts. Honestly, mine were similar.
OK, bring it on. Thoughts?
OK, Here are my thoughts. I'm bringing it on.
The vast amount of time and brain cells you spend obsessing, planning, and trying to optimize the future (whether it's cars, money, etc) is mind boggling. The next thing you know you're going to have your 5 cars, your massive 401k, and your 3 vacation homes... and you're going to be a wrinkled 60 year old man wondering where the fuck your youth went. Learn to enjoy what you have right now (or change it RIGHT NOW) before its too late. I'm not kidding. I'm no saint in this department, but I'm much better than I used to be, and I'm much happier.
"Mind your own f*cking business" might seem like a reasonable reply to posts like Lous's and mine. But you involve us in these obsessions by telling us about them over and over and asking for opinions, so at some point it's not out of line to comment.
life is what happens when you are making other plans. :dunno:
3LOU5
08-06-2008, 02:49 AM
Pick a thread, any thread:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=14470
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=13208
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=15136
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=17472
And I know I'm missing a few others.
Yeah, you're right I could just not click on your thread and just ignore it (which I should've done in the first place). But to tell you the truth, all these "wafflings" are getting old. Really.
And I'm not the only one who voices this same opinion, judging from similar replies from others.
I swear, you're worst than a girl who can't decide on what to wear on a first date. :rolleyes:
Oh and by the way, good luck in your final decision.....if you ever get there.
(And I agree on what rumatt said. Life's too freakin' short to be worrying about this or that).
Again, no offense but sometimes you come across as trying to compare the "size of your d*ck" by some of the posts/threads you've written/started. At least, that's the feeling I get.
:rant2:
Pick a thread, any thread:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=14470
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=13208
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=15136
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=17472
And I know I'm missing a few others.
Here's one you missed from 4 years ago.
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=6265
3LOU5
08-06-2008, 03:24 AM
Here's one you missed from 4 years ago.
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=6265
Dammit. I just knew you were going to find something that I missed. :lol:
Well (and I'm not being sarcastic here), I sincerely apologize for wasting anyone's time or comming across as annoying, petulant, arrogant or attention-deprived. FWIW, I don't "stress" over these decisions. I enjoy thinking about them when I have free time. If that seems weird, then I must be weird. Thinking about my potential future cars has been soemthig I've done since I was a teenager and poor. It also has never adversely affected my life in any way. When decisions have had to be made, they were made (despite what you may think). I have the luxury of taking my time on this one and as I've said before, I am very happy with what I have right now. I am a very happy person and have been happy with a whole lot less.
I thought this was a good place to talk about cars. I'm also sure opinions are voluntary. But if you feel my starting similar threads and posting similar comments (often because people ask similar questions about it) is in any way affecting your enjoyment of this site, I'll stop posting any sort of waffling threads. It's a shame, because I do value people's opinions here, but I respect people and don't want to be a distraction to the site.
My apologies again.
wdc330i
08-06-2008, 02:05 PM
No need to apologize. You were doing just what this subforum was created for.
John V
08-06-2008, 02:30 PM
I've been planning out what I'm going to buy for my next car since the day I bought this one, so... almost three years ago. I have no problem with you waffling out loud. :dunno: Considering all the various options is part of the fun.
J
I'd probably have a lot more money in the bank if I waffled for longer than I do. Once I get it in my mind that I want something else, it's usually only a matter of days before I act upon the urge. :)
996 Turbo then.:ack::D
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=248804421&dealer_id=63038905&car_year=2002&num_records=25&model=911TURBO&systime=&make2=&start_year=2002&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&body_code=2&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=POR&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=COUPE&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&position=top&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceASC&address=90024&advanced=y&end_year=2004&transmission=Manual&doors=&max_price=&cardist=227&rdpage=thumb
+1
BTW, excessive waffling is okay. I have been doing it quite a bit lately.
Seriously.
I think you should get the 996 Turbo.:ack::D
Dude. You're a dick. Stop the lobbying.:mad2:
Now you're gonna wanna make test drive the 996TT the have at the P-dealership a mile from work.
Oh and while I have this thread open and somewhat alive, I'm all but certain I'll be putting my ZHP up for sale shortly. It's a difficult decision, but ultimately I feel is the right one. I did enjoy the car for 5.5 years and 54K miles. I'll never forget my first fun car and my first new car. I look forward to a MCS and if that gets my wife more involved in cars/driving that wil be great too. With this decision I will soon also be looking for a good opportunity on a used P-car and in all likelyhood a 3.4L 987S/CS.
I'm a moron and still would like a Wrangler, but for now, I wonder if a sub $8K JGC or 4Runner is a good call for shitty weather/dirty dog/outdoorsy stuff/HD runs/mild towing. You can get an '04 JGC for under 10K it seems. Cherokees in good shape demand too mcuh cash. I could also look for a 1st gen JGC. I bet those are dirt cheap.
my paypal account awaits...
my paypal account awaits...
Why?
EDIT: Oh, I remember now, you owe me money. I'll be nice and won't charge you interest for the past 8 months.
3LOU5
08-06-2008, 03:55 PM
....
My apologies again.
No need to apologize.
I, too, value other's opinions here. I'm not as car-crazy as some (gee, what year did BMW increase the hp and torque of their 2.5 liter ?! And by how much ?!?!), but I thoroughly enjoy reading other's experiences. The people here seem very knowledgeable and passionate; I think that is one of the reasons why I like hanging around.
But what I have issues with are these many similar "waffling" threads that seem to say the same thing. Can't they just merge them together so it's easier to follow?!
Anyway, if I came across as an insensitive prick, that was NOT my intention.
So cheers, and let by-gones be by-gones.....
:drink2:
Why?
EDIT: Oh, I remember now, you owe me money. I'll be nice and won't charge you interest for the past 8 months.
you've owed me for 2 years :dunno:
John V
08-06-2008, 04:02 PM
Nobody wants a 996 turbo. :ack:
you've owed me for 2 years :dunno:
:lol:
No need to apologize.
I, too, value other's opinions here. I'm not as car-crazy as some (gee, what year did BMW increase the hp and torque of their 2.5 liter ?! And by how much ?!?!), but I thoroughly enjoy reading other's experiences. The people here seem very knowledgeable and passionate; I think that is one of the reasons why I like hanging around.
But what I have issues with are these many similar "waffling" threads that seem to say the same thing. Can't they just merge them together so it's easier to follow?!
Anyway, if I came across as an insensitive prick, that was NOT my intention.
So cheers, and let by-gones be by-gones.....
:drink2:
Some of the threads started innocently enough with a report on a drive, etc and then devolve (probably my fault) into the same old topic.
FC, fuck 'em all (and I mean that in the nicest way possible... dinner and candlelight).
This is the "Perseverators Anonymous" forum. You're simply fulfilling its charter. Everyone's free to disregard any thread they don't want to deal with.
Any condemnation coming your way is simply curmudgeonly nonsense.
Then again, curmudgeonly nonsense fills another charter of this board, so that's fine too.
We're all doing our duty!
FC, fuck 'em all (and I mean that in the nicest way possible... dinner and candlelight).
This is the "Perseverators Anonymous" forum. You're simply fulfilling its charter. Everyone's free to disregard any thread they don't want to deal with.
Any condemnation coming your way is simply curmudgeonly nonsense.
Then again, curmudgeonly nonsense fills another charter of this board, so that's fine too.
We're all doing our duty!
:lol:
rumatt
08-06-2008, 05:14 PM
FC, fuck 'em all (and I mean that in the nicest way possible... dinner and candlelight).
And don't forget to use plenty of lube.
Sharp11
08-06-2008, 11:17 PM
I wonder if a sub $8K JGC or 4Runner is a good call for shitty weather/dirty dog/outdoorsy stuff/HD runs/mild towing. You can get an '04 JGC for under 10K it seems. Cherokees in good shape demand too mcuh cash. I could also look for a 1st gen JGC. I bet those are dirt cheap.
You should've talked equ into buying that Pathfinder, dirt cheap, then off it to you at a profit (but still under book value).
Nice synergy there.
Ed
You should've talked equ into buying that Pathfinder, dirt cheap, then off it to you at a profit (but still under book value).
Nice synergy there.
Ed
That wouldn't have been a bad idea, except for the narrow window of time. Right now things are very tight for us. In a few months, things will change.
Yeah, I really think a Wrangler or an Elise are bad ideas for you at this point (and probably for longer than you think). These are specialized vehicles, one good for off roading and another for the track. First you should check if these will be hobbies for you. You can do this without owning the expensive toy for the hobby. Chances are, since you're not off-roading with others as it is, or if are not tracking a fair bit your zhp, you will not have time/energy to do these seriously. If you buy the toy for a hobby that you don't really do, it "feels" good for a short while and then it gets old. Lup enjoys his jeep in very different circumstances (Washington, friends off-roaders and no kids). Will you really have time for it?
The 987S is better than the elise for everyday comfort/fun/practicality. But even that, I'm not sure I'm giving its full worth as I'm not much of a tracker myself - and not sure if I'll have the time. After two fun years, I'm finding that more often I HAVE to drive it rather than I can't stop myself from driving it.
Don't overdo it. This is a danger in this consumer society where buying feels good (until the remorse sets in).
I was in Maine for the last week and leaving for Costa Rica in 18hrs so many posts to catch up on.
You should've talked equ into buying that Pathfinder, dirt cheap, then off it to you at a profit (but still under book value).
Nice synergy there.
Ed
That is (was) a good idea, as the pathfinder is smooth/luxo enough to take over a bunch of v70r duty and perfect for the dog.
Wrangler? :? Sorry, FC, perhaps I don't know you but based on what you own, rough station in life, pics of your house, etc. etc., it just doesn't fit in.
(And Sharp11 gets a cut for putting the deal together)
Low miles and seems like good price for an 03 S.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___Boxster-S-Speed-Yellow-One-Owner-Low-Miles_W0QQitemZ320285402196QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truc ksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320285402196&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A7%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
Low miles and seems like good price for an 03 S.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___Boxster-S-Speed-Yellow-One-Owner-Low-Miles_W0QQitemZ320285402196QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truc ksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320285402196&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A7%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
There's a CPO '03 S for similar money around here someplace. Since Porsche is now doing a 2 year warranty on CPO cars, that's a much better deal.
SARAFIL
08-20-2008, 12:51 PM
There's a CPO '03 S for similar money around here someplace. Since Porsche is now doing a 2 year warranty on CPO cars, that's a much better deal.
Yeah, Porsche just updated their CPO program to match the coverage to what you get with the original 4/50k warranty... this is much better coverage than what you would get on any other CPO. It covers stuff that is typically not covered on a CPO warranty like radio, CD changers, navigation systems, xenon lights, etc.
If you can get a CPO Porsche in the same price range, I'd jump on it just for that piece of mind.
Back on waffling subject...
Yup, you probably saw the post (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=199147&postcount=82) already.
I had a long conversation with my wife and the result was that we realized we are trying to shoehorn the MCS at an innoportune time. We'll get one, but not right now. We went back to the sensible idea that until the youngest child we have is at least FF, it makes little sense to sell a prefectly good, fun, practical, beautiful car that we are attached to and is paid for.
Of course other developments could change things sooner such as: we don't have any more kids, (for whatever reason) my wife starts driving to work, the 330i gets stolen/totalled/starts being a big headache.
By the same token, I have agreed to lower the budget for the sportscar, and look for something "cheap" to try out the weekend/2-seater/roadster thing before dropping big cash on one.
So I have my sights on JV's car (so dude, don't crash it). I'll need to schedule a trip to DC in early October to go check it out and say hi to Team WTF?! et al. I plan on driving to Philly to visit my best friend (have not yet met his 20-month old and they are due any day for their 2nd kid). From there, I hope to make a day trip (probably alone) to DC. I assume that's doable (the day trip part).
In the meantime (if I can find the time), I'll try to go drive an S2K and an Elise.
Congrats on the decision, this is the smart way to go. It's very hard to find a good car for $18k, let alone a clean zhp which you've had since new. The little scratches & bumps that tear into your heart are nothing compared to what else is out there on sale.
wdc330i
08-23-2008, 03:57 PM
So true. The devil you know. My 2002 is the most reliable car we have.
I like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2008-Unlimited-4x4-3-8L-V6-MP3-Navigation-Tow-Package_W0QQitemZ290256810057QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290256810057&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245) a LOT, and seems like a good deal.
...just sayin'.
Sharp11
09-07-2008, 12:38 AM
I like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2008-Unlimited-4x4-3-8L-V6-MP3-Navigation-Tow-Package_W0QQitemZ290256810057QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290256810057&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245) a LOT, and seems like a good deal.
...just sayin'.
Abysmal fuel mileage ....
clyde
09-07-2008, 01:14 AM
I like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2008-Unlimited-4x4-3-8L-V6-MP3-Navigation-Tow-Package_W0QQitemZ290256810057QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290256810057&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245) a LOT, and seems like a good deal.
...just sayin'.
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=8
...just saying'
I paid less than that for my new 4Runner Sport. And I'll bet is a lot more livable on-road. And I'll bet gets better mileage (I'm averaging 18.8 around town with the V8). And probably a lot more reliable. And probably better suited to towing. And it still very good off-road (not Rubicon good, though).
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=8
...just saying'
:lol:
I know. There is no way on hell I'd be buying one anytime soon.
lupinsea
09-08-2008, 03:25 PM
I paid less than that for my new 4Runner Sport. And I'll bet is a lot more livable on-road. And I'll bet gets better mileage (I'm averaging 18.8 around town with the V8). And probably a lot more reliable. And probably better suited to towing. And it still very good off-road (not Rubicon good, though).
Ah, but is it convertible? Can you take the doors off for that open air feeling? Fold down the windshield (not that "I" personally do that). Is the 4Runner rough and tumble enough so that it's designed with an interior you can hose out with a garden hose?
Otherwise, yeah, the 4Runner will probably drive better, and better suited for towing.
The 4-door Jeeps are rated at 3500 lb. towing capacity (pretty weak).
As for fuel economy? I've talked to enough 4-door drivers that have reported getting around your same fuel economy. One fellow reported that on 35" tires, stock gearing and FULLY loaded with cargo he was seeing 17 mpg but most of the time hit 21 mpg on the freeway. Others, stock tires and gears, were getting 19 mpg in mixed driving and hitting 26 mpg cruising flat on the highway.
To me this seems amazing for a vehicle with the aerodynamic efficiency of a brick.
I'd think the 4Runner would be a better driver but the Jeep would be more fun. :D
Personally, if I were in FC's shoes I'd NOT get a Rubicon. I think that level of offroadiness is wasted in the NE U.S. where he lives. The regular Jeeps would be moooooore than plenty. So, save the coin.
However, in my shoes "I" would definitely get a Rubicon. The wife already knows this and is figuring on this for the next Jeep we purchase. . . which could either be in 5 years (upgrading to the family friendly 4-door Wrangler) or maybe in 15+ years after my current Jeep is thoroughly used up.
Ah, but is it convertible? Can you take the doors off for that open air feeling? Fold down the windshield (not that "I" personally do that). Is the 4Runner rough and tumble enough so that it's designed with an interior you can hose out with a garden hose?
Otherwise, yeah, the 4Runner will probably drive better, and better suited for towing.
The 4-door Jeeps are rated at 3500 lb. towing capacity (pretty weak).
As for fuel economy? I've talked to enough 4-door drivers that have reported getting around your same fuel economy. One fellow reported that on 35" tires, stock gearing and FULLY loaded with cargo he was seeing 17 mpg but most of the time hit 21 mpg on the freeway. Others, stock tires and gears, were getting 19 mpg in mixed driving and hitting 26 mpg cruising flat on the highway.
To me this seems amazing for a vehicle with the aerodynamic efficiency of a brick.
I'd think the 4Runner would be a better driver but the Jeep would be more fun. :D
Personally, if I were in FC's shoes I'd NOT get a Rubicon. I think that level of offroadiness is wasted in the NE U.S. where he lives. The regular Jeeps would be moooooore than plenty. So, save the coin.
However, in my shoes "I" would definitely get a Rubicon. The wife already knows this and is figuring on this for the next Jeep we purchase. . . which could either be in 5 years (upgrading to the family friendly 4-door Wrangler) or maybe in 15+ years after my current Jeep is thoroughly used up.
I know I have no use for the Rubicon. But few people seem to spec out the X's "properly." The saharas are silly (and offered in lame colors except fo rthe dark green). The Rubicon comes std with a bunch of cool stuff, looks great, and resale seems to be disproportionately better than non-Rubicons.
And by the way, I still drool when I see a wrangler 4-door. It makes no sense, but I love that thing. The lifetime warranty and left-over deals coupled with new car financing makes me think stupid thoughts sometimes.
lupinsea
09-08-2008, 07:52 PM
The Rubicon comes std with a bunch of cool stuff, looks great, and resale seems to be disproportionately better than non-Rubicons.
As a potential future buyer of a used Rubicon I don't want to hear this. La la la la la la la lalalalalalaaaalallaa. . . .
I REALLY don't think this dealer quite realizes what he's got. Wrangler X's seem to sell for as much - Saharas for more.
2007 Rubicon Ultd for under 23K. (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=251379138&dealer_id=604647&car_year=2007&model=WRANGLER&num_records=100&systime=&make2=&start_year=2007&keywordsfyc=__dW5saW1pdGVk__&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=117110108105109105116101100&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&only_price=1&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=50&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=JEEP&keywords_display=unlimited&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=02021&advanced=y&only_photo=1&end_year=2007&doors=&transmission=Automatic&max_price=&cardist=38)
:eeps:
SARAFIL
09-09-2008, 06:15 PM
I REALLY don't think this dealer quite realizes what he's got. Wrangler X's seem to sell for as much - Saharas for more.
2007 Rubicon Ultd for under 23K. (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=251379138&dealer_id=604647&car_year=2007&model=WRANGLER&num_records=100&systime=&make2=&start_year=2007&keywordsfyc=__dW5saW1pdGVk__&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=117110108105109105116101100&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&only_price=1&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=50&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=JEEP&keywords_display=unlimited&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=02021&advanced=y&only_photo=1&end_year=2007&doors=&transmission=Automatic&max_price=&cardist=38)
:eeps:
If I had known you really wanted one... we just sold a '07 Rubicon Unlimited with 8k miles for <$24k.
If I had known you really wanted one... we just sold a '07 Rubicon Unlimited with 8k miles for <$24k.
I'm not in the market for one now anyway. But starting midway thorugh next year, I'll start to keep my eyes open just in case.
I'm not in the market for one now anyway. But starting midway thorugh next year, I'll start to keep my eyes open just in case.
:ack::rolleyes::lol:
:ack::rolleyes::lol:
Whatever.
lupinsea
09-10-2008, 01:48 PM
Wow. That seems like a good price.
When I bought my '01 in '04 market price was about $16-17k for a 3 year old mid-level Jeep with 39k on the clock.
That's only 1 year old (but w/ 27k on the clock), the Rubi edition with it's many offroad goodies, and with a lot more usefulness for an extra $6k-ish.
Wow. That seems like a good price.
When I bought my '01 in '04 market price was about $16-17k for a 3 year old mid-level Jeep with 39k on the clock.
That's only 1 year old (but w/ 27k on the clock), the Rubi edition with it's many offroad goodies, and with a lot more usefulness for an extra $6k-ish.
There are people asking 28K for a similar car - not that they would get it. It's the only '07 Rubicon within 500 miles (only ~12 for sale) with an asking price under ~$25K.
lupinsea
09-17-2008, 03:30 PM
Just as another data point for you, FC. . .
Been talking to a guy on Jeepforum who lives in the Seattle region who bought a 4-door wrangler. Of BIG interest to me is how well they do on the trail. And I'm getting excited at his comments. Apparently even at one of the tightest ORV parks in the area he had no issue navigating the trails. He did rip off a fender (he admits driving lazy) and rubbed the other fenders a few times but no permenant damage. Just picked up 12 plastic tabs and popped the torn fender back on. Despite the long wheel base he reports no rubbing on the under carriage, no issues with the breakover angle, and no real problems with turning (though a few 3 and 5 point turns on the toughest trails). And the extra width didn't sound like much of an issue either.
Given what I know about this ORV park (I've been Jeep'n there for 10 years now) this really impresses me. I figure if the 4-door can make it there it'll be fine on the other trails throughout the state that are not as tight or twisty.
So, for me at least, it sounds like the 4-door is a possibility. Ability to fit on the NW's tight, twisty trails was my big concern.
He's also invited me to ride along with sometime to see how it does. :cool: I'll definitely take him up on his offer sometime.
As for you?
He said he and his wife liked the 4-door Wrangler so much . . . they bought two of them.
Oh, and for all the offroading they're doing at a very challenging ORV park they got the base model X line. No Rubicon. And it didn't have any problems getting through the trails. So, if you're interested in a Rubicon . . . ok. But it seems like a base X would be perfectly functional and if you want a slight improvement in trim then the Sahara. Sounds like from a functional standpoint the Rubicon would be a waste.
I even love the color.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll157/cmy07jeep/100_1216.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll157/cmy07jeep/100_1067.jpg
Just as another data point for you, FC. . .
Been talking to a guy on Jeepforum who lives in the Seattle region who bought a 4-door wrangler. Of BIG interest to me is how well they do on the trail. And I'm getting excited at his comments. Apparently even at one of the tightest ORV parks in the area he had no issue navigating the trails. He did rip off a fender (he admits driving lazy) and rubbed the other fenders a few times but no permenant damage. Just picked up 12 plastic tabs and popped the torn fender back on. Despite the long wheel base he reports no rubbing on the under carriage, no issues with the breakover angle, and no real problems with turning (though a few 3 and 5 point turns on the toughest trails). And the extra with didn't sound like much of an issue either.
Given what I know about this ORV park this really impresses me. I figure if the 4-door can make it there it'll be fine on the other trails throughout the state that are not as tight or twisty.
So, for me at least, it sounds like the 4-door is a possibility. Trail ability was my big concern.
He's also invited me to ride along with sometime to see how it does. :cool: I'll definitely take him up on his offer sometime.
As for you?
He said he and his wife liked the 4-door Wrangler so much . . . they bought two of them.
Oh, and for all the offroading they're doing at a very challenging ORV park they got the base model X line. No Rubicon. And it didn't have any problems getting through the trails.
Sounds good. I don't need a Rubicon. I've admitted as much a few times. The problem with X's aroudn here is that they are optioned as strippers, and I would definitely need the power group and the dual tops. It would also be nice to get the at least the optional LSD if not the rear locker as well as the tow pkg. Most X's have next to none of those things. But I will look for one in a year or two.
lupinsea
09-17-2008, 07:22 PM
The alternative is to figure out what it'd run to install those yourself.
If you can change a tire you can do a lot of installation stuff on a Jeep. They are ultra DIY friendly. Probably the most DIY friendly vehicle ever mass produced.
It'd come down to hassle factor, time, and $$$ though.
I would say the power group of options would probably be the toughest to install on your own. Tow packages, spare tops, are easy. The other difficult thing would be a rear locker. But guess what, Jeep sells a fully assembled, ready-to-go, bolt-in Rubicon axle w/ locker for about $1500. A set of socket wrenches, jack stands and a floor jack and you can put it in your self in probably under 2 hrs. Maybe under an hour.
Ok, sure, I realize this is more work than just buying a JK that already has this stuff in it but . . . It may be worth the effort if there's a big cost difference between the Rubicon and X model in a few years.
If you can change a tire you can do a lot of installation stuff on a Jeep. They are ultra DIY friendly. Probably the most DIY friendly vehicle ever mass produced.
I'd argue that the good 'ol FJ-40 LandCruisers are at least as DIY friendly. :D
Man... I sure miss mine at times (can't believe I sold it just about 16 years ago)...
Ok, sure, I realize this is more work than just buying a JK that already has this stuff in it but . . . It may be worth the effort if there's a big cost difference between the Rubicon and X model in a few years.
That is really what it comes down to. We'll see.
lupinsea
09-18-2008, 12:00 AM
I'd argue that the good 'ol FJ-40 LandCruisers are at least as DIY friendly. :D
Man... I sure miss mine at times (can't believe I sold it just about 16 years ago)...
Well, ok, the FJ-40's, Samurais, and Toyota pickup trucks, too.
But the Jeep has the greatest aftermarket support of them all. You can find tons of stuff to tune and fix up your Jeep exactly as you like it.
Besides, you can buy a "new" FJ-40 for $88k (http://jalopnik.com/cars/custom-cars/a-new-icon-more-on-tlcs-new-replica-fj40-232127.php).
http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/assets/resources/2007/01/FJ-40-Icon.jpg
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.