View Full Version : New C&D came today... R32 write-up on pg 97
I want one again.
Damn, I hate negotiating leases.
Drive it in turns and get back to me.
Okay nate, I'm starting to get really sick of being talked down to.
I test drove the car. I assessed it's handling.
I live in an predominently urban area. One can't even test drive a BMW "in the twisties" around here. There really aren't any to speak of.
I was very impressed pushing it in the manner I did. And I pushed it harder turn-wise than I would on 99% of my drives.
clyde
04-01-2004, 10:38 PM
I live in an predominently urban area. One can't even test drive a BMW "in the twisties" around here. There really aren't any to speak of.
There's plenty of twisty roads near Tischer (and all of the other dealers in that car park). Can't remember if there's a VW dealer there or not, but I think there is.
If that's not good, enough, I don't understand why you wouldn't be willing to find another dealer within a couple hours from here that is in the middle of twisties to find out. Yeah, it's a PITA (especially if you don't wind up getting one), but the time commitment is relatively small compared to how much time you would spend in it if you bought it (not to mention how much money you'll be putting into it). Recall buying a 330i without doing a thorough drive beforehand.
Well, you always talk about how you want your future car be fun at auto-x.
I don't really think that a straight line acceleration test and some lane changes can give you that kind of assesment.
If that is talking down to you, then now you should change some of the things that you say. You have a repuation of being very uh, "to the point" when talking to other people on the boards.
Not that C&D's word is pure gospel, but they titled their R32 piece "Looking for an instant autocrosser? Look no further."
They may be right, I don't know.
Just saying that you should see for yourself. I took the 328Ci on an auto-x course on a test drive.
Anyway, I don't read car magazines very much anymore. Besides, C&D complains that the E46 M3 is "bone jarring"
They may be right, I don't know.
Just saying that you should see for yourself. I took the 328Ci on an auto-x course on a test drive.
Anyway, I don't read car magazines very much anymore. Besides, C&D complains that the E46 M3 is "bone jarring"
And you have never driven one in Ann Arbor, where the roads make Kabul look first world.
The R32 handles well. Remember, it has a completely different rear suspension than that used on lesser Golfs. I don't know if it's really an "instant autocrosser," because of the weight and heavy forward weight bias, but there's no reason to think that it falls down in the turns.
Plus, I just don't drive that hard anymore. I still drive fast, but not hard.
Plus, I just don't drive that hard anymore. I still drive fast, but not hard.
If you're anything like me in this regard, you'll find yourself driving hard again at some point. I definitely go through phases.
And you have never driven one in Ann Arbor, where the roads make Kabul look first world.
It would have to be especially bad to beat New Orleans.
The roads get worse by the hour here. The side streets are just incredible.
And you have never driven one in Ann Arbor, where the roads make Kabul look first world.
It would have to be especially bad to beat New Orleans.
The roads get worse by the hour here. The side streets are just incredible.
That they are especially bad is my point.
Remember, I've lived both places. New Orleans has bad streets from a lack of maintenance and wear and tear. Ann Arbor/Detroit has bad streets from a lack of maintenance, wear and tear, frost heaves, salt erosion, and snow plow damage.
lemming
04-01-2004, 11:53 PM
Plus, I just don't drive that hard anymore. I still drive fast, but not hard.
you're letting me down here, man. don't admit this aloud.
:slap:
i think for what you're looking for the R32 is going to be fine. it's not the endpoint, it's a means to the endpoint. i'm not bugging you about this because i know this car isn't going to be your 'keeper'.
Plus, I just don't drive that hard anymore. I still drive fast, but not hard.
you're letting me down here, man. don't admit this aloud.
:slap:
i think for what you're looking for the R32 is going to be fine. it's not the endpoint, it's a means to the endpoint. i'm not bugging you about this because i know this car isn't going to be your 'keeper'.
I doubt any car will ever truly be a "keeper" unless I can afford to keep 4 or more cars.
dredmo
04-01-2004, 11:55 PM
Plus, I just don't drive that hard anymore. I still drive fast, but not hard.
If you're anything like me in this regard, you'll find yourself driving hard again at some point. I definitely go through phases.
clyde
04-02-2004, 12:14 AM
i think for what you're looking for the R32 is going to be fine. it's not the endpoint, it's a means to the endpoint.
But the R32 won't satisfy TD in the sort term either (IMO).
i think for what you're looking for the R32 is going to be fine. it's not the endpoint, it's a means to the endpoint.
But the R32 won't satisfy TD in the sort term either (IMO).Well, maybe sort of.
clyde
04-02-2004, 12:24 AM
i think for what you're looking for the R32 is going to be fine. it's not the endpoint, it's a means to the endpoint.
But the R32 won't satisfy TD in the sort term either (IMO).Well, maybe sort of.Kinda proves the point, don't you think?
i think for what you're looking for the R32 is going to be fine. it's not the endpoint, it's a means to the endpoint.
But the R32 won't satisfy TD in the sort term either (IMO).Well, maybe sort of.Kinda proves the point, don't you think?
Only sort of.
(Because my post was simply pointing out your typo.)
clyde
04-02-2004, 12:36 AM
i think for what you're looking for the R32 is going to be fine. it's not the endpoint, it's a means to the endpoint.
But the R32 won't satisfy TD in the sort term either (IMO).Well, maybe sort of.Kinda proves the point, don't you think?
Only sort of.
(Because my post was simply pointing out your typo.)Doh!
Still... :twisted:
LOL.
I still don't think the R32 is all that. And C&D's little weekend autocrosser plug shouldn't be the feather that makes you fall down that slope. C&D is the only "regular" car magazine that I subscribe to, and I value their opinion, but still.
Then again, what did I just say that I haven't said already? If, after enduring the virtual pummeling that most of us have dealt you on the R32, you still find it attractive, maybe we should all just STFU and let you lease it. :dunno:
LOL.
I still don't think the R32 is all that. And C&D's little weekend autocrosser plug shouldn't be the feather that makes you fall down that slope. C&D is the only "regular" car magazine that I subscribe to, and I value their opinion, but still.
Then again, what did I just say that I haven't said already? If, after enduring the virtual pummeling that most of us have dealt you on the R32, you still find it attractive, maybe we should all just STFU and let you lease it. :dunno:
The R32 will not autocross as well as other cars available for the price, such as the Evo and the STi. But that is reflected in its classing. FWIW, someone in the WDCR is already autocrossing an R32. I have no idea what the driver's skill level is, so the times are pretty meaningless.
Obviously, TD has to make his own decision about whether the financials can be made to make sense. But I think that people who haven't driven one shouldn't give him too much crap about it based on what they've seen on paper, or pre-existing biases they bring to the table re: VWs. The R32 is, as I've said before, far more appealing in person than it should be, based on its specs. There's just something about it that is pretty compelling, especially for a fan of German cars.
If I had to get one car and one car only, and was limited to a budget of 30K, the R32 might not be the car that I would get, but it would be on my short list of cars to consider. And for a two year lease, what the hell? It's not like you're marrying the thing. At worst, if you hate living with it, you give it back at the end of the lease and buy something more brutal.
wdc330i
04-02-2004, 12:22 PM
Well, this isn't based on anything much more than gossip and one firsthand experience. BUT. I'd be very wary of buying a VW. My partner's Jetta VR6 went through two transmissions and was ready for a third when we dumped it. Dealing with VW dealers was terrible. At the time, the company only offered a two year warranty (although that's changed).
The Post car critic Warren Brown fields tons of complaints from VW owners about the terrible network of dealers and their inability to get things fixed. Long waits for parts.
Plus, a friend of mine knows a VW executive who said the only VW product he could safely recommend was the Toureg. He said the best sedan to buy was a 3 series.
Now, as BMW ramps up to sell zillions of new models, we may also find our dealer experience going from mediocre to even worse. I've been waiting for three months for BMW of Sterling to paint and replace my lock cylinder. My car looks great with black electrical tape on the driver's door handle.
Well, this isn't based on anything much more than gossip and one firsthand experience. BUT. I'd be very wary of buying a VW. My partner's Jetta VR6 went through two transmissions and was ready for a third when we dumped it. Dealing with VW dealers was terrible. At the time, the company only offered a two year warranty (although that's changed).
The Post car critic Warren Brown fields tons of complaints from VW owners about the terrible network of dealers and their inability to get things fixed. Long waits for parts.
Plus, a friend of mine knows a VW executive who said the only VW product he could safely recommend was the Toureg. He said the best sedan to buy was a 3 series.
Now, as BMW ramps up to sell zillions of new models, we may also find our dealer experience going from mediocre to even worse. I've been waiting for three months for BMW of Sterling to paint and replace my lock cylinder. My car looks great with black electrical tape on the driver's door handle.
There have been some known issues with VWs, most notably the horrible, horrible window regulators (ours failed three times--on a car with two windows) and the ignition coils. These problems seem to have been addressed now. Other than those two (widespread) issues, our GTI gave us no trouble. Our experience with the service department at our local VW dealer has been nothing but pleasant--in fact, they really went out of their way to help us out when the (wrecked) car was in their service bay and the insurance company was trying to decide what to do with it.
Obviously, this varies based on dealer, but VW has been engaging in a major push to improve its dealers in order to sell/service the Touareg and the Phaeton, so maybe VW is on the upswing at the same time that BMW is slipping. In my somewhat limited experience, I prefer the VW dealer to any of the local BMW dealers I've dealt with.
FWIW, I wouldn't trust Warren Brown to recognize a car parked in a field of daisies.
wdc330i
04-02-2004, 12:42 PM
Well, I agree about Warren Brown. He is the LEAST knowledgeable professional car writer I've ever read. His online chat reveals how little he knows--something that could be rectified by a little effort in reporting and reading. Very sloppy. But he does get emails and calls from readers about VW.
I forgot about the window regulators, also a problem on our VW.
And I forgot about the current debacle about BMW's step transmissions--many 2003 and 2004 units are defective.
Who was your VW dealer? We had a terrible time with Martens VW. Although, their Volvo unit was no problem for me.
I will go testdrive an R32, and I will tell you if I like it better than the Evo8.
I still think TD should testdrive the Evo8 before getting a new car. btw, the Evo does not look like a OZ Rally Edition Lancer.
--Andrew
Well, I agree about Warren Brown. He is the LEAST knowledgeable professional car writer I've ever read. His online chat reveals how little he knows--something that could be rectified by a little effort in reporting and reading. Very sloppy. But he does get emails and calls from readers about VW.
I forgot about the window regulators, also a problem on our VW.
And I forgot about the current debacle about BMW's step transmissions--many 2003 and 2004 units are defective.
Who was your VW dealer? We had a terrible time with Martens VW. Although, their Volvo unit was no problem for me.
VW of Springfield, where we also bought our WRX.
wdc330i
04-02-2004, 12:55 PM
Ah. Thanks. I've always loved the way VWs drive--since my college friend's Scirocco in the early 80s. 80% as good as BMWs for 50% of the price.
Although, my parents had a VW Thing for 10 years. I'd be hard pressed to even call that a car. It was the Thing that wouldn't die. They bought it used 10 years old, drove it for 10 years, sold it and we'd see it around town for the next 10 years.... :shock:
We used to take it to a place downtown for service. An independent shop that's now the P Street Whole Foods. The guys there always sounded like Dracula. One day I finally asked them where they were from. Honest to god, they told me, "The Forest Country of Romania." Or, more accurately, Transalvania!
To take this thread slightly off-topic, NHTSA released crash test results for the Mazda3 yesterday. The results: four stars frontal (both driver and passenger), THREE stars side. :eek: By contrast the not-so-brand-new Golf platform turned in a full five stars frontal and four stars side this year. Here are the results:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/3023.html
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2983.html
sigh.
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 01:22 PM
I will go testdrive an R32, and I will tell you if I like it better than the Evo8.
I still think TD should testdrive the Evo8 before getting a new car. btw, the Evo does not look like a OZ Rally Edition Lancer.
--Andrew
Werd about the Evo. A must drive before car purchase.
Don't go test drive the R32 without me!
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 01:23 PM
I want one again.
Damn, I hate negotiating leases.
DO IT! DO IT!
Don't go test drive the R32 without me!
I just contacted Hewlett via their web contact form, I will try to set it up for next Saturday. We need to get a map of Georgetown to find a road to take it to.
--Andrew
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 01:40 PM
Don't go test drive the R32 without me!
I just contacted Hewlett via their web contact form, I will try to set it up for next Saturday. We need to get a map of Georgetown to find a road to take it to.
--Andrew
Interesting, I wonder if our luck would hold up and let us drive one like we did with the Evo and STi. If so, that would be great.
lemming
04-02-2004, 03:00 PM
TD: as someone who could live with a Turbo Forester for 95% of my driving, i am fully with you on the potential R32 purchase.
it's a cool car. it does many things decently and you're sure to be able to still nail apexes when the mood hits you. that's not to say you won't miss the m3, because you will, but it's not as though you won't still be able to play.
I want one again.
Damn, I hate negotiating leases.
DO IT! DO IT!
NOTHING happens until my car sells.
Although I wouldn't need the proceeds from my M3 in order to lease the R32, I just refuse to have 4 cars, even if only temporarily.
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 04:09 PM
I want one again.
Damn, I hate negotiating leases.
DO IT! DO IT!
NOTHING happens until my car sells.
Although I wouldn't need the proceeds from my M3 in order to lease the R32, I just refuse to have 4 cars, even if only temporarily.
My first DO IT! was for you to sell the M3 asap. If no buyer, you can donate it to bimmerevolution and let people get a chance to drive it.
My second DO IT! was for you to buy the R32 after you sell the M3.
Basically, you have already decided you are going to get the R32. It is also an emotional buy in. Good job!
I want one again.
Damn, I hate negotiating leases.
DO IT! DO IT!
NOTHING happens until my car sells.
Although I wouldn't need the proceeds from my M3 in order to lease the R32, I just refuse to have 4 cars, even if only temporarily.
My first DO IT! was for you to sell the M3 asap. If no buyer, you can donate it to bimmerevolution and let people get a chance to drive it.
My second DO IT! was for you to buy the R32 after you sell the M3.
Basically, you have already decided you are going to get the R32. It is also an emotional buy in. Good job! Turbo cars are kewl! Ayn will agree to that one.
The R32 is normally aspirated; it uses a 3.2L, 24 valve, 240 hp version of VW's VR6 engine.
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 04:14 PM
The R32 is normally aspirated; it uses a 3.2L, 24 valve, 240 hp version of VW's VR6 engine.
DOH! My foot in my mouth. Let me edit my post.
In that case, test drive the Evo.
JST: Can you edit out the last 2 sentences in my post where you quoted me?
And I am not committed to the idea of the R32 yet.
The other idea that keeps floating back into my head is getting a clean E34 M5.
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 04:19 PM
And I am not committed to the idea of the R32 yet.
The other idea that keeps floating back into my head is getting a clean E34 M5.
I assume it's out of warranty already?
Btw, you certainly sound like you are ready to buy a R32, just trying to find reasons not to. :roll:
And I am not committed to the idea of the R32 yet.
The other idea that keeps floating back into my head is getting a clean E34 M5.
I assume it's out of warranty already?
Btw, you certainly sound like you are ready to buy a R32, just trying to find reasons not to. :roll:
No, actually, I'm not.
Nothing is really crying out to me, "Buy me." But the R32 is pretty damn slick. Although an A4 3.0 Quattro with their level 2 sport package (I forget what it's called) leases for a lot less than the R32. If they can't move A LOT on the R32 lease rate, this whole argument is moot. I'm not paying anything near what they quoted me for this car. It's $200/mo more than the lease on an RSX Type S. That's just stupid.
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 04:32 PM
And I am not committed to the idea of the R32 yet.
The other idea that keeps floating back into my head is getting a clean E34 M5.
I assume it's out of warranty already?
Btw, you certainly sound like you are ready to buy a R32, just trying to find reasons not to. :roll:
No, actually, I'm not.
Nothing is really crying out to me, "Buy me." But the R32 is pretty damn slick. Although an A4 3.0 Quattro with their level 2 sport package (I forget what it's called) leases for a lot less than the R32. If they can't move A LOT on the R32 lease rate, this whole argument is moot. I'm not paying anything near what they quoted me for this car. It's $200/mo more than the lease on an RSX Type S. That's just stupid.
Wut 'bout the warranty on the M5?
And I am not committed to the idea of the R32 yet.
The other idea that keeps floating back into my head is getting a clean E34 M5.
I assume it's out of warranty already?
Btw, you certainly sound like you are ready to buy a R32, just trying to find reasons not to. :roll:
No, actually, I'm not.
Nothing is really crying out to me, "Buy me." But the R32 is pretty damn slick. Although an A4 3.0 Quattro with their level 2 sport package (I forget what it's called) leases for a lot less than the R32. If they can't move A LOT on the R32 lease rate, this whole argument is moot. I'm not paying anything near what they quoted me for this car. It's $200/mo more than the lease on an RSX Type S. That's just stupid.
Wut 'bout the warranty on the M5?
I have an out-of-warranty car now. I'm used to it.
Lartymarf
04-02-2004, 04:40 PM
And I am not committed to the idea of the R32 yet.
The other idea that keeps floating back into my head is getting a clean E34 M5.
I assume it's out of warranty already?
Btw, you certainly sound like you are ready to buy a R32, just trying to find reasons not to. :roll:
No, actually, I'm not.
Nothing is really crying out to me, "Buy me." But the R32 is pretty damn slick. Although an A4 3.0 Quattro with their level 2 sport package (I forget what it's called) leases for a lot less than the R32. If they can't move A LOT on the R32 lease rate, this whole argument is moot. I'm not paying anything near what they quoted me for this car. It's $200/mo more than the lease on an RSX Type S. That's just stupid.
Wut 'bout the warranty on the M5?
I have an out-of-warranty car now. I'm used to it.
I see. Welp, good luck on finding your next car man.
Melissa
04-02-2004, 04:53 PM
Maybe I missed such a response, but why get anything at all? If you are still going to have two left after you sell the one, then why not wait until something does scream "BUY ME NOW BIG BOY"?
Otherwise, if you get one, you'll wonder about the other, and vice versa.
Maybe I missed such a response, but why get anything at all? If you are still going to have two left after you sell the one, then why not wait until something does scream "BUY ME NOW BIG BOY"?
Otherwise, if you get one, you'll wonder about the other, and vice versa.BTW, not to :stickpoke: even more, but this is the same issue of C&D that calls the turbo PT Cruiser convertible "cute, quick, and topless" and also calls the 645Ci "a visual slam dunk. Yeah!" :)
Seriously though, I maintain that the R32 is a fine car, but that it is priced somewhat ridiculously high. And your experience with lease offers underlines that thought. If you can get one at a price that approaches the RSX's, then I can't imagine I'd have a lot to complain about.
clyde
04-03-2004, 03:24 AM
JST: Can you edit out the last 2 sentences in my post where you quoted me?
Where's the fun in that?
clyde
04-03-2004, 03:25 AM
Maybe I missed such a response, but why get anything at all? If you are still going to have two left after you sell the one, then why not wait until something does scream "BUY ME NOW BIG BOY"?
Otherwise, if you get one, you'll wonder about the other, and vice versa.
elbert
04-05-2004, 11:51 PM
If they can't move A LOT on the R32 lease rate, this whole argument is moot. I'm not paying anything near what they quoted me for this car. It's $200/mo more than the lease on an RSX Type S. That's just stupid.
Just a suggestion...
2004 Impreza WRX Sedan (4JC)
Manual Transmission*
$259/Month
42 Month Lease. $1,909 due at signing. Includes $1,650 down payment and first month's payment of $259. Security deposit is waived. Tax, title, license and registration fees extra.
Lessee pays personal property and ad valorem taxes (where applicable), insurance, maintenance, repairs not covered by warranty, excessive wear and tear and a mileage charge of $.15 per mile for exceeding lease mileage limits based on a 12,000 miles per year allowance. Length of lease contract for Rhode Island residents is limited; see your dealer for details. Offer not available to dealers or residents of New York.
If they can't move A LOT on the R32 lease rate, this whole argument is moot. I'm not paying anything near what they quoted me for this car. It's $200/mo more than the lease on an RSX Type S. That's just stupid.
Just a suggestion...
2004 Impreza WRX Sedan (4JC)
Manual Transmission*
$259/Month
42 Month Lease. $1,909 due at signing. Includes $1,650 down payment and first month's payment of $259. Security deposit is waived. Tax, title, license and registration fees extra.
Lessee pays personal property and ad valorem taxes (where applicable), insurance, maintenance, repairs not covered by warranty, excessive wear and tear and a mileage charge of $.15 per mile for exceeding lease mileage limits based on a 12,000 miles per year allowance. Length of lease contract for Rhode Island residents is limited; see your dealer for details. Offer not available to dealers or residents of New York.
Ugh. 42 month lease. That's nuts.
TD mentioned wanting to drive a ZHP again--not sure if he saw this post:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57139
rumatt
04-06-2004, 12:30 AM
TD mentioned wanting to drive a Performance Package again--not sure if he saw this post:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57139
:lol:
elbert
04-06-2004, 12:46 AM
Ugh. 42 month lease. That's nuts.
Gah, my mental calculator needs to be checked.
OK, how 'bout this:
LEASE SPECIAL
2004 RSX Type-S
36 Months Term
12,000 Annual Mileage
Terms Certificate
$300.20
*Lease Summary: Required Refundable Security Deposit $325.00, 1st Monthly Payment $300.20, Capitalized Cost Reduction $0.00 to equal an estimate total of $625.20 due at lease signing
rumatt
04-06-2004, 12:56 AM
OK, how 'bout this:
FWD. $50/month is too much for a FWD car.
OK, maybe not literally, but almost.
elbert
04-06-2004, 01:03 AM
FWD. $50/month is too much for a FWD car.
OK, maybe not literally, but almost.
That's ricockulous.
rumatt
04-06-2004, 01:09 AM
That's ricockulous.
:lol: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ricockulous
It's not recockulous if I add the (hopefully implied) disclaimer: "for me, because I hate driving them".
elbert
04-06-2004, 01:17 AM
That's ricockulous.
:lol: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ricockulous
It's not recockulous if I add the (hopefully implied) disclaimer: "for me, because I hate driving them".
Got it from Adam Corolla of the Man Show. :D And you're right, for you, it's not ricockulous.
But try to take an RSX to the track--you might be surprised.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.