More Mini Talk. Finally drove one.

[FC]

Ironically, while in Montreal, my wife found out there was a Mini dealership just a few miles away from her parents' house and suggested we go check them out/drive one (double irony). So off we went.

Of course, there had to be one with basically the exact specs and colors as my wife would like sitting on the showroom. She liked it a lot. Loved the driving position, and felt the back seat wasn't bad. With me in the front seat, she fit in the back seat fine though leg room would be tight for taller people (she is 5'3"). In the showroom she found nothing wrong with it.

Off to the test drive. The salesguy was incredibly nice and accomodating despite knowing that there was no way we'd be buying one there. Base MSRP for an MCS: $30K CAD. :lol: With a few options, $35K CAD. That car would spec out to about $26K USD.

My wife drove it, and then I did. My wife loved it. My impressions:

-Holy clutch pedal overtravel. Once you get used to it, it isn't bad. This thing needs a clutch-stop much more than the E46 does.
-Wow, this thing pulls evenly from way low, like 2krpm or under. Nice. With ~ 500lbs of passengers (salesman came along), the car still moved around nicely, and impressively did so also at hwy speeds (mid 70-mph) on 5th gear. Cool.
-Brakes were VERY nice. (Note to self: bleed both 330i & V70R promptly).
-Ride was firm (16" RFT's) a la ZHP but felt worse thanks to Montreal's epic ass roads. There was a sharpness on broken pavement that I can tell is thanks to the tires. With summers and particularly softer winter tires on 16" wheels, the car must ride much better.
-Not much of a chance to test handling, but when I took off ramps in a somewhat sporty manner, the car felt great.
-Sunroof is cool, and the car is surprisingly quiet at hwy speeds (but not great).
-It was a funny thing, it clearly wasn't my 330i, yet it felt very familiar. You can see the genes in there.
-Shifter was ok, never missed a shift.
-I never once looked at the large, central speedometer.

Conclusion: I really liked it. It's a nice little car. Optioned up, it makes a great premium compact car. But I don't see me coughing up $10K over my 330i despite it being 5yo old. Not while it remains trouble-free and fresh in our eyes. Also, this car, and any other 2-door is a no-go as a replacement for the 330i until our youngest child is forward-facing (that's anywhere from 5 months to a few years). But if the 330i had to be replaced due to trouble/theft/lotal loss or if MINI offers ED, we would get an MCS.

Now I need to drive lemming's car while this test drive is fresh in my mind to see what the JCW stage 1 is all about. To be fair, the additional ~325lbs worth of passenegers as well as the 6/10ths driving may have not given me an accurate impression of how fun it could be, but I got a decent feel for it. Again, lemming's car may change things.

Oh, there was a Clubman on the showroom floor - my wife wanted nothing to do with it.

It was funny how she kept comparing the MCS to her old Beetle ('00 base, MT) and commenting on how much better/fun the MCS was.

[ff]

I'd keep the 330i.

[lemming]

my car is broken in finally. won't be around this weekend, but week after looks good, FC! (evening night?)

[dan]

I'd keep the 330i.

I'd let my wife buy whatever she wanted.

[FC]

my car is broken in finally. won't be around this weekend, but week after looks good, FC! (evening night?)

Anytime is usually fine. I'll let you know if something comes up.

[ff]

I'd let my wife buy whatever she wanted.

Horrah for you.

[John V]

The central speedo is a major Mini design flaw, IMO. It's a huge turn-off. They are still neat cars and very fun to drive.

[ff]

The central speedo is a major Mini design flaw, IMO. It's a huge turn-off.

+100

[Plaz]

It's not so bad with the Nav.

[rumatt]

I'm not feeling it... replacing a 330 with a mini.

[FC]

The central speedo is a major Mini design flaw, IMO. It's a huge turn-off. They are still neat cars and very fun to drive.

I liked the option they offered on late R53's where you could get two small dials over the steering column with speedo and tach. Too bad they didn't carry it over. Still, the digital speedo under the tach works well enough, I guess. It's just that the central one is dumb.

[Rob]

I'd let my wife buy whatever she wanted.

Me too. Especially considering her contribution to income (how can you even argue in that case?).

[JST]

The central speedo is a major Mini design flaw, IMO. It's a huge turn-off. They are still neat cars and very fun to drive.

Meh. It's annoying, but you get used to it quickly. If necessary, you can set the digital display in the tach to display your speed, which is the same approach Mazda used for the RX-8.

[lemming]

Meh. It's annoying, but you get used to it quickly. If necessary, you can set the digital display in the tach to display your speed, which is the same approach Mazda used for the RX-8.

my main gripes, too.

i'd like to know boost PSI, oil temp and water temp in an OEM-type of way.

given that it's a German car made by Brits, you could see why i'm distrustful of any aftermarketeer who would splice into the factory Lucas electronics to add those gauges.

[lupinsea]

They're still using Lucas for the electronics? As in Lucas, Prince of Darkeness (http://www.hermit.cc/mania/tmc/articles/lucas.htm)? As in Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices? :eek:

I really hope they've improved over the years.

[lemming]

They're still using Lucas for the electronics? As in Lucas, Prince of Darkeness (http://www.hermit.cc/mania/tmc/articles/lucas.htm)? As in Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices? :eek:

I really hope they've improved over the years.

i think they actually do for some OEM bits and pieces.

but for the most part, i was just making stuff up (do you really trust german electrical stuff installed by brits?).

:D

[FC]

I'm getting that feeling again - that maybe I should swap the 330i for an MCS. I have to go to a body shop and get an estimate for yet another bumper hit. I think the signs are getting clearer. I also have started to think that maybe it's time for a change. My kid is about to go FF and if we have a 2nd kid, my wife would be home 6 months, meaning I'd only have to deal with one RF kid for 6 months. I dunno. Just more waffling I guess. It's just that I'm about to have to buy new winter tires and pay for window tinting. If I keep it through the winter, I'd probably hang on to it for a while longer.

[ff]

Knowing the frown I'll get from Bono, I still think that you should keep the 330i. At least through the winter.

[lemming]

I'm getting that feeling again - that maybe I should swap the 330i for an MCS. I have to go to a body shop and get an estimate for yet another bumper hit. I think the signs are getting clearer. I also have started to think that maybe it's time for a change. My kid is about to go FF and if we have a 2nd kid, my wife would be home 6 months, meaning I'd only have to deal with one RF kid for 6 months. I dunno. Just more waffling I guess. It's just that I'm about to have to buy new winter tires and pay for window tinting. If I keep it through the winter, I'd probably hang on to it for a while longer.

i'm sorry, F.

we still need to get together so you can drive the car. i've just had it in for a quick service visit and also a new windshield. :D

(sigh).

[FC]

No sweat lemming. My house is in the middle of remodeling so it's not as if I've had a lot of spare time. Maybe I'll have you and Zach over when it's all done (hopefully by Labor Day).

[FC]

SARAFIL, I take it there is no sign of ED being availble from MINI, right? The moment you sniff a chance, let me know.

[JST]

SARAFIL, I take it there is no sign of ED being availble from MINI, right? The moment you sniff a chance, let me know.

Given the state of currency markets, you aren't going to save any money at all on a trip to England. I also kind of doubt that Mini is going to be introducing anything like this given that they are already selling as many as they can make...and I'm not sure how scenic the old BMC plant really is, anyway.

[FC]

Given the state of currency markets, you aren't going to save any money at all on a trip to England. I also kind of doubt that Mini is going to be introducing anything like this given that they are already selling as many as they can make...and I'm not sure how scenic the old BMC plant really is, anyway.

I don't expect any discount. And just like BMW ED, I plan on kissing the plant good bye 5 minutes after I get the keys. But you are right. It's a long shot. Just asking, since MINI has been claiming to be working on this for quite some time. If they said, "nevermind we are not doing it," I wouldn't ask.:dunno:

[rumatt]

I still think that you should keep the 330i.

:+1

I'm still baffled by the mindset that Mini > E46

[lemming]

:+1

I'm still baffled by the mindset that Mini > E46

:dunno:

preference?

one of my main reasons is the strong residuals (artificially high for the R56) --in the event i change my mind or migrate to the R55, etc. and in the interim, i'm definitely not suffering.

i'm sure the E46s have strong residuals, also, but they aren't exactly riding at the crest of the wave of fuel efficient vehicles for resale.

[ff]

:+1

I'm still baffled by the mindset that Mini > E46

Thinking back, I probably didn't think that the MINI was better than the 330i, but I do recall believing that it was a worthy replacement.

Evidently some of the MINI's shortcomings have been resolved since I made the 330i-to-mini mistake, but I still don't see it as being anywhere close to the same league as the 330i.

It's all about expectations. If you understand that the MINI is less, and go into it just wanting something different, then you'll probably love it. But if you expect it to do the things that the 330i can do, you might be in for a let-down.

[lemming]

Thinking back, I probably didn't think that the MINI was better than the 330i, but I do recall believing that it was a worthy replacement.

Evidently some of the MINI's shortcomings have been resolved since I made the 330i-to-mini mistake, but I still don't see it as being anywhere close to the same league as the 330i.

It's all about expectations. If you understand that the MINI is less, and go into it just wanting something different, then you'll probably love it. But if you expect it to do the things that the 330i can do, you might be in for a let-down.

yes.

[Plaz]

yes.

:+1

However, I actually think my MCS is a smidge quicker than my 330 was. It's also newer. And it's got better electronic doodads.

I wouldn't say it's a "better" car than an E46 though -- it's a very different car. But both cars are very well executed, and are very fun and able. They each have strengths and limitations.

[FC]

:+1

However, I actually think my MCS is a smidge quicker than my 330 was. It's also newer. And it's got better electronic doodads.

I wouldn't say it's a "better" car than an E46 though -- it's a very different car. But both cars are very well executed, and are very fun and able. They each have strengths and limitations.

I understand that ceteris paribus ZHP>MCS. However,

-MCS is new, ZHP 5.5 years old with all that comes along with that.
-MCS is different (sometimes that is good)
-MCS is more economic
-Wife LOVES the MCS as much as we would all love to have a Cayman, GT3, etc.
-I can cash out 10-15K to pay for remodeling stuff and finance the MCS for a reasonably attractive rate (is 5% or less doable nowadays?)

So, despite all those points I am not 100% sold on the idea yet since we all know how much better the ZHP is versatility-wise, etc, but liek I said, I am close to spendign money on winter tires and tinting - things that you get pennies on the dollar upon selling.

Finally, remember that while getting a sportscar is not contingent upon swaping the ZHP for an MCS, the MCS will not be my sole source of driving fun. In fact it would merely be complementary.

Perhaps more than I can admit, in the background there is a bit of, who did clyde so eloquently put it? Ah yes, "the need to f*ck other women." TNTFOW?

[Optimus Prime]

We're considering a clubman to replace the e90. With the possible move, high gas prices, and my use of bicycle transportation, we're likely going to consolidate the giant truck and car into just one family car.

The problem is we have no Mini dealers within less than a 2.5 hour drive.

[lupinsea]

You know. . . . with the MINI being shorter than your ZHP those collision boo boos probably wouldn't have happened. :D

[FC]

You know. . . . with the MINI being shorter than your ZHP those collision boo boos probably wouldn't have happened. :D

You are probably right.:lol: You would think it being a bright red car would make people very aware of its presence.:rolleyes:

[FC]

Well, believe it or not, I think I may have found the straw that broke the camel's back. Let's just say that as our little guy is growing older, you start to relaize that cloth isn't the best material for kids. Not nearly as good as 'ette or leather. Also, my wife seems more and more confident about the decision to sell the 330i. I will wait to mak ea decision until we have time to really talk about it at length when we go to Montreal next weekend, but it looks more and more like I may actually be selling the car soon (now to no later than next spring).

In the meantime, what does an '03 330i ZHP with 55K miles and in decent shape fetch nowadays? It will need front brakes soon as well as the 60K service. PS2's with ~5K miles, Icelink, moonroof, heated seats, Xenons, no mechanical issies, everything works perfectly. One dent, wheels and paint are a B+/A-, front and rear bumpers have some scuffs but car still looks great from 10 feet away. One owner, no smoking, well taken care of, etc.

Edmunds says $16.8K (private party) "clean" and it doesn't take into account the ZHP, only that it's a 330i.
KBB says $17.5K (private party) for "good" condition and does have the ZHP factored in.

I think 17.5K would be good. There is only one MT ZHP listed in autotrader within 200 miles so there is a limited supply.

Thoughts?

[lemming]

Well, believe it or not, I think I may have found the straw that broke the camel's back. Let's just say that as our little guy is growing older, you start to relaize that cloth isn't the best material for kids. Not nearly as good as 'ette or leather. Also, my wife seems more and more confident about the decision to sell the 330i. I will wait to mak ea decision until we have time to really talk about it at length when we go to Montreal next weekend, but it looks more and more like I may actually be selling the car soon (now to no later than next spring).

In the meantime, what does an '03 330i ZHP with 55K miles and in decent shape fetch nowadays? It will need front brakes soon as well as the 60K service. PS2's with ~5K miles, Icelink, moonroof, heated seats, Xenons, no mechanical issies, everything works perfectly. One dent, wheels and paint are a B+/A-, front and rear bumpers have some scuffs but car still looks great from 10 feet away. One owner, no smoking, well taken care of, etc.

Edmunds says $16.8K (private party) "clean" and it doesn't take into account the ZHP, only that it's a 330i.
KBB says $17.5K (private party) for "good" condition and does have the ZHP factored in.

I think 17.5K would be good. There is only one MT ZHP listed in autotrader within 200 miles so there is a limited supply.

Thoughts?

i have a friend at work looking for an E46!

can i tell him about this?

[FC]

i have a friend at work looking for an E46!

can i tell him about this?

Sure, just tell him it's tentative. Likely, but tentative.

[Theo]

Well, believe it or not, I think I may have found the straw that broke the camel's back. Let's just say that as our little guy is growing older, you start to relaize that cloth isn't the best material for kids. Not nearly as good as 'ette or leather. Also, my wife seems more and more confident about the decision to sell the 330i. I will wait to mak ea decision until we have time to really talk about it at length when we go to Montreal next weekend, but it looks more and more like I may actually be selling the car soon (now to no later than next spring).

In the meantime, what does an '03 330i ZHP with 55K miles and in decent shape fetch nowadays? It will need front brakes soon as well as the 60K service. PS2's with ~5K miles, Icelink, moonroof, heated seats, Xenons, no mechanical issies, everything works perfectly. One dent, wheels and paint are a B+/A-, front and rear bumpers have some scuffs but car still looks great from 10 feet away. One owner, no smoking, well taken care of, etc.

Edmunds says $16.8K (private party) "clean" and it doesn't take into account the ZHP, only that it's a 330i.
KBB says $17.5K (private party) for "good" condition and does have the ZHP factored in.

I think 17.5K would be good. There is only one MT ZHP listed in autotrader within 200 miles so there is a limited supply.

Thoughts?

WOW are they that cheap!! I got more then that KBB quote a month ago for my 99M3 drop top and it had just over 80K on it.

[FC]

WOW are they that cheap!! I got more then that KBB quote a month ago for my 99M3 drop top and it had just over 80K on it.

Well, my car is an '03. And even using an MSRP of ~41K when new, 17.5/41 is 43% after 5.5 years. That's not horrible. But they appear to have dropped a lot in the last 2 years. Also, my car is in good shape with lowish mileage, but it's not in spectacular shape with super low miles. I haven't decided on what to ask yet, though. AT has ONE MT 330i from '03-'04 within 200 miles, so there is not a lot to choose from around here. Maybe the price should go up for the low supply. :dunno:

[Theo]

Well, my car is an '03. And even using an MSRP of ~41K when new, 17.5/41 is 43% after 5.5 years. That's not horrible. But they appear to have dropped a lot in the last 2 years. Also, my car is in good shape with lowish mileage, but it's not in spectacular shape with super low miles. I haven't decided on what to ask yet, though. AT has ONE MT 330i from '03-'04 within 200 miles, so there is not a lot to choose from around here. Maybe the price should go up for the low supply. :dunno:

I guess that is a realistic price all things considered. It's just a little shocking. Seems to be a great time right now to buy a well kept nice used car. Good luck with the sale.

[clyde]

I think 17.5K would be good.

Thoughts?

I think that's probably pretty darn close to what a 2000 Boxster S should go for.

:eeps:

[FC]

I think that's probably pretty darn close to what a 2000 Boxster S should go for.

:eeps:

I think I've made up my mind that I want an '07+ 987S or an '06+ Cayman S.

Surprisingly, while it's darn near impossible to find an '07 987S with an asking price of 50K or under, there are boatloads of '06 Cayman S's asking mid-40K's. By next spring, I hope I can get a 3.4L Cayman for close to 40K or a 3.4L 987S for close to 45K.

The Cayman seems to be the better deal.

[clyde]

Is a 987S (fixed or soft top) really worth $25k+ more than a 986S? Or should that be take all the money that a 986S would run, duplicate that pile, then add another pile that's 1/4 as big as the first pile. Push them all together into a single pile.

Perhaps I'm a little fuzzy right now, but I've been tooling around in a 1991 Miata for the past week. About 108k miles. Original clutch (which is starting to slip). Dead shocks. Misaligned. Shot bushings everywhere. Etc. Maybe it's worth $1,000. It's been a blast. More power would certainly be appreciated, but for the life of me, for third vehicle cruising/fun where it's just about enjoying the ride, I can't think of a reason why I'd want to spend 20x as much for John's Boxster, let alone 45x as much for a 987S.

Of course, a third car/2 seater/roadster isn't about practical decisions. OTOH, if it's just about the driving and fun, why spend so much extra when you don't have to?

My dad and brother keep asking me if I want the Miata. I'd take it in a heartbeat if getting it to MD wouldn't be such a PITA and expense that I wouldn't be easier/cheaper to buy one locally.

Just saying...

[armaq]

Edmunds says $16.8K (private party) "clean" and it doesn't take into account the ZHP, only that it's a 330i.
KBB says $17.5K (private party) for "good" condition and does have the ZHP factored in.

I think 17.5K would be good. There is only one MT ZHP listed in autotrader within 200 miles so there is a limited supply.

Thoughts?

$17.5k? I'm likely keeping mine (which is identical to yours, just turned 56k). At this price, I'm looking at another 10k at least to get into any car I'm interested, new or used.

[FC]

Is a 987S (fixed or soft top) really worth $25k+ more than a 986S? Or should that be take all the money that a 986S would run, duplicate that pile, then add another pile that's 1/4 as big as the first pile. Push them all together into a single pile.

Perhaps I'm a little fuzzy right now, but I've been tooling around in a 1991 Miata for the past week. About 108k miles. Original clutch (which is starting to slip). Dead shocks. Misaligned. Shot bushings everywhere. Etc. Maybe it's worth $1,000. It's been a blast. More power would certainly be appreciated, but for the life of me, for third vehicle cruising/fun where it's just about enjoying the ride, I can't think of a reason why I'd want to spend 20x as much for John's Boxster, let alone 45x as much for a 987S.

Of course, a third car/2 seater/roadster isn't about practical decisions. OTOH, if it's just about the driving and fun, why spend so much extra when you don't have to?

My dad and brother keep asking me if I want the Miata. I'd take it in a heartbeat if getting it to MD wouldn't be such a PITA and expense that I wouldn't be easier/cheaper to buy one locally.

Just saying...

I respect your point.

[equ]

$17.5k? I'm likely keeping mine (which is identical to yours, just turned 56k). At this price, I'm looking at another 10k at least to get into any car I'm interested, new or used.

And even that 17.5 is - a bit- optimistic. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but certainly it's not going for more.

[equ]

Is a 987S (fixed or soft top) really worth $25k+ more than a 986S? Or should that be take all the money that a 986S would run, duplicate that pile, then add another pile that's 1/4 as big as the first pile. Push them all together into a single pile.

I can't think of a reason why I'd want to spend 20x as much for John's Boxster, let alone 45x as much for a 987S.



The first point is a solid one.. Is the 987S worth 25k more than a 986S? Not at all (actually real difference is more like 20k). The extra bit of power, nicer interior, newness and warranty may add up to 10k or maybe just maybe 15k, but 20-25k is not it. But then, it's so hard to find a great, great 986S for cheap, because most of the time, the good/great ones aren't for sale. Some of you guys may be adept at fixing them, but that doesn't go for most of us.

The second point is not really meaningful. Let's say, I had ice cream for $2 and it was great and it made the evening. A nice car costs about $20/day to keep/maintain etc, even on days you don't drive them. Is the car - that we don't end up driving every day - really worth 10x as much as the ice cream. Certainly doesn't bring 10x as much enjoyment... It's not easy to find a miata that's still enjoyable and only worth $1k, it has to be in the family and you have to be mechanically inclined to see past the shot bushings and what not.

[clyde]

The first point is a solid one.. Is the 987S worth 25k more than a 986S? Not at all (actually real difference is more like 20k). The extra bit of power, nicer interior, newness and warranty may add up to 10k or maybe just maybe 15k, but 20-25k is not it. But then, it's so hard to find a great, great 986S for cheap, because most of the time, the good/great ones aren't for sale. Some of you guys may be adept at fixing them, but that doesn't go for most of us.

I'd be interested to know how you quantify how to value intangibles like power, interior, and newness. We all have our ways of doing it and I'm not sure that any of it makes sense.

The second point is not really meaningful. Let's say, I had ice cream for $2 and it was great and it made the evening. A nice car costs about $20/day to keep/maintain etc, even on days you don't drive them. Is the car - that we don't end up driving every day - really worth 10x as much as the ice cream. Certainly doesn't bring 10x as much enjoyment... It's not easy to find a miata that's still enjoyable and only worth $1k, it has to be in the family and you have to be mechanically inclined to see past the shot bushings and what not.

If I had the choice of driving a nice car for a day or 10 ice cream cones, I'm not sure that I'd ever pick the ice cream. The difference in enjoyment is significant in my mind...well more than a 10:1 ratio.

As for fun $1k Miatas...I've driven a lot of really, really crappy ones. Ones that are worse than the one I've been driving this week. They are ALL tons of fun to toss around. The maintenance items...eh. In the 17 years/108k miles on this one, I think it's had a couple sets of brakes. A few oil changes. A couple new rear windows (first plastic, then glass). A few sets of tires. Two window regulators. What the car needs is stuff that "needs" to be done but not doing them doesn't make the car stop running (although the clutch will eventually keep it from moving under its own power).

If you increased your budget to $4k, you could easily find a pretty cherry Miata of the same vintage, fewer miles, more mechanically sound, less worn interior/exterior, etc. The question would still be whether the 986S was worth 5x the Miata and/or the 987S worth 11x.

If it's just for driving fun, I don't think they even come close. But driving fun isn't the only factor in the purchasing decision, is it?

[equ]

Despite its highway and snow capabilities and general luxury of the 330xi, most of the time we co-owned them, I kept thinking that the Civic Si is a more fun to drive, and possibly overall better car than the 330xi for a third/quarter of the price.

I've driven a few miatas, not so many, and I can see that they're fun in a very basic, purist way. I really like them, especially for 1k. But there is also a novelty factor that we shouldn't discount. For a few weeks it'll be fun, but day-in, day-out, some underpowered moment here and a leak there etc. etc. and one ends up going to buy a newer car.

By the same token, one should never replace an e36m3 with another bmw that's worth 2 to 3 times as much. Less fun, more money. A year ago, I considered going to an e36m3 as an only car, almost as much fun as the cayman, has a backseat. The positive side to this argument is that if I were to fall on harder times (or end up in a country where cars are exorbitantly priced), I could still find enjoyment out there on a tight budget.

[SARAFIL]

Despite its highway and snow capabilities and general luxury of the 330xi, most of the time we co-owned them, I kept thinking that the Civic Si is a more fun to drive, and possibly overall better car than the 330xi for a third/quarter of the price.


You could probably say something like this for a MCS. It's a great all-around car for what it is. Might not be as fast as a BMW or have all the stuff the BMW has, but it is alot cheaper and it is more oriented towards "fun". You don't have to push it hard to get enjoyment out of it. Plus, be reasonable when building it and you can get a really nice car with the important stuff for $25-26k.

As for some of the comments that have been said here earlier along the lines of "I would not pay money on top of your BMW to get a MINI"... well, yes, all things being equal, a MINI is worth quite a bit less than a BMW. But, it is going to cost money to go from a 5 year old BMW into a new MINI. Good news is that the amount of money required is alot less than it would be if he were upgrading to another new BMW or equivalent vehicle. ;)

[SARAFIL]

:+1

I'm still baffled by the mindset that Mini > E46

We regularly take E46's in trade for MINIs. In fact, we get alot of BMW customers buying MINIs. Some buy them as additions, but many people are getting them as replacements for E46 or E90 3-series as well as X3's. In fact, I would say that the 3-series/X3 is one of the most common cars that the MINI replaces.

We're taking some of them in that are 5-6 years old with 100k+ miles, but we've even taken some in trade that are only a few months old with <2k miles. We even took a 335i coupe in trade a few months ago.

[equ]

The classic public over-reaction/hysteria is in play though. "4$/gallon, OMG, Run for the gates!"

[lupinsea]

Cheap Miatas area a good deal. For the $4-6/7k range you can get a decent fun RWD, manual roadster with good handling. They have their care and feeding issues but are otherwise pretty reliable. And when they do take repairs are cheap to fix.

My wife's parents recently sold their older Miata, it was a 1992 they bought for $5k 10 years ago. They just sold it for $3700.

$1200 depreciation over 10 years? Doesn't seem bad.

They bought a 1999 Miata and are loving that one just as much. Recent ran Deal Gap as it's about 2.5 hrs from their house.