View Full Version : Lots of changes for facelifted 911
Rennteam is "reporting" lots of changes for '09 997:
-997S = 380hp (and 15 more lb-ft)
-997 =345 hp
-PDK (allegedly a super-duper DCT with 7 gears)
-LSD standard on AWD models
-LSD optional on RWD mdoels
-Launch control
-Red stripe between tailights on C4S model (like 996)
-Available, iPod integration, heated steering wheel, ventilated seats, etc
-Rumor of ALL 911's being wide-body
-and of course, the mild facelifting.
This is my synopsis.
Oh, and some dude claims the facelifted GT3 will get 435hp and a kick-ass version of PDK. Considering current GT3 prices, it makes you wonder about getting one and driving it for a few months for "free."
This is all nice, but doesn't affect me directly since the odds of me leasing a new 997/S are slim (though in a moment of temporary insanity I almost got myself and my wife to be on board with that idea).
But, the new cars could certainly depress existing 997/S prices - particularly as '05 models start to run out of warranty.
If only it had a longer wheelbase and better weight distribution...
Then I might be tempted. And yes, stuka, a bulletproof engine might help. I was home with a cold yesterday and browsed the 996 forum a bit. In 2004, RMS was the big deal, now it's intermediate shaft failures... Crikey! Is that likely on the 997 generation as well?
Jeff_DML
04-25-2008, 01:19 PM
didnt realize it was official
John V
04-25-2008, 01:40 PM
The IMS issues have hit the Boxster / 911 community hard. Fortunately, Porsche has been doing a lot of good-faith repairs, even for cars out of warranty. I don't ever take my car to a dealer for service, so likely I'd be completely screwed.
However, considering the ease with which a 3.6, 3.6 X51 or 3.8L engine can be dropped into a Boxster... I can't say I'd be totally destroyed if my engine blew up in a year and it HAD to be replaced. :D
The 997 Carrera S 355 bhp 3.8L pulling around 300lbs less car would be pretty impressive.
Wow! In many ways these changes are at least as significant as those of 05. This may change my modding plans for the cayman as well as car calculus.
That said, my car calculus is not nearly as interesting as FC's, as I have no long or even medium term plans.
However, considering the ease with which a 3.6, 3.6 X51 or 3.8L engine can be dropped into a Boxster... I can't say I'd be totally destroyed if my engine blew up in a year and it HAD to be replaced. :D
The 997 Carrera S 355 bhp 3.8L pulling around 300lbs less car would be pretty impressive.
It's easy, but what does it cost? If I had as little in the car as you did, I might agree. If my - to me expensive - car's engine fails, I'm SOL.
What I found amazing was the high frequency of these failures. Even the sound is well-characterized, "coins in a dryer".
didnt realize it was official
I couldn't see those actual documents. Thanks. Man that's a lot of upgrades.
The base carrera now has Xenons (previously an absurdly expensive, 1K option), bigger brakes and 345hp - and better fuel economy. Sounds pretty awesome.
Jeff_DML
04-25-2008, 02:55 PM
I couldn't see those actual documents. Thanks. Man that's a lot of upgrades.
The base carrera now has Xenons (previously an absurdly expensive, 1K option), bigger brakes and 345hp - and better fuel economy. Sounds pretty awesome.
got to love the pcar nickel and dime
It's easy, but what does it cost? If I had as little in the car as you did, I might agree. If my - to me expensive - car's engine fails, I'm SOL.
What I found amazing was the high frequency of these failures. Even the sound is well-characterized, "coins in a dryer".
I haven't heard of the 996 having as many issues as the 986. And I've hardly heard of any issues in the 987/997, but I could be wrong. They've been out for 3 years now, if it were serious it would be all over the place, one would think.
I just realized the obvious way in which '05-'08 997/S' are going to take a beating...
The '09 997S is going to basically have the ~$16K power kit standard (and then some). That means people who paid well over $100K for their 385hp '05-'08 997S that currently still have the balls to ask ~$80K+ on resale are going to have to drop their prices by at LEAST 10K, if not 15K+ otherwise it's a no-brainer to just get a new one.
Similarly, as the base 997 now has 997S-type numbers and features, you can't sell a 355hp S for anywhere close to the price of a new '09 base 997 (which MANY are going for now :rolleyes:).
So, come winter time, I do think an '05 997S can be had for well under $60K (some already are right now), and probably much closer to $50K.
There will also probably be some spectacular fire sales on leftover '08's. As it is, leftover '07's could be had for 10K off despite being identical to an '08. Savings of 15k+ should not be hard to get on new, leftover '08's.
lemming
04-25-2008, 04:25 PM
I just realized the obvious way in which '05-'08 997/S' are going to take a beating...
The '09 997S is going to basically have the ~$16K power kit standard (and then some). That means people who paid well over $100K for their 385hp '05-'08 997S that currently still have the balls to ask ~$80K+ on resale are going to have to drop their prices by at LEAST 10K, if not 15K+ otherwise it's a no-brainer to just get a new one.
Similarly, as the base 997 now has 997S-type numbers and features, you can't sell a 355hp S for anywhere close to the price of a new '09 base 997 (which MANY are going for now :rolleyes:).
So, come winter time, I do think an '05 997S can be had for well under $60K (some already are right now), and probably much closer to $50K.
There will also probably be some spectacular fire sales on leftover '08's. As it is, leftover '07's could be had for 10K off despite being identical to an '08. Savings of 15k+ should not be hard to get on new, leftover '08's.
:dunno:
told as much recently. it's just the way of the modern 911 lifecycle. just makes no sense to buy one new unless your company is paying for the lease. so many upgrades (to boost sales) that you get creamed.
i think the upgrades sound good. the next upgrade should be to lose some weight. :)
They're going to take a beating assuming msrps stay the same - which they don't have to.. Euro is $1.60.
The upgrades are serious (Thanks, Jeff!). More than the xenons, the audio (which is so crappy in the current offerings) looks like it will finally enter the 21st century. Inputs, touchscreen...
Interestingly, just last night, a solution was posted on caymanclub. Someone managed to put an avic d3 (touchscreen nav + audio inputs) into a car equipped with bose (like mine). This was thought to be very hard. It turns out it works as long as you put in another amp as well. Anyway, best case that's $2k and a hairy install. If the coming upgrades are sweeping, perhaps I should hang on for a bit before dropping major $$ on audio (and perhaps even the softronic plenum/chip that I was thinking of doing for hp).
lemming
04-25-2008, 04:37 PM
They're going to take a beating assuming msrps stay the same - which they don't have to.. Euro is $1.60.
The upgrades are serious (Thanks, Jeff!). More than the xenons, the audio (which is so crappy in the current offerings) looks like it will finally enter the 21st century. Inputs, touchscreen...
Interestingly, just last night, a solution was posted on caymanclub. Someone managed to put an avic d3 (touchscreen nav + audio inputs) into a car equipped with bose (like mine). This was thought to be very hard. It turns out it works as long as you put in another amp as well. Anyway, best case that's $2k and a hairy install. If the coming upgrades are sweeping, perhaps I should hang on for a bit before dropping major $$ on audio (and perhaps even the softronic plenum/chip that I was thinking of doing for hp).
well, whenever the 911 gets upgraded.......that makes some headroom for the Cayman get some more goodies.
i'd just trade yours in and get a midcycle refreshed one with the options that you like, no?
Yup, between spending $2k each on hp and audio, I can get one with hp & audio... Honestly, I don't think I can go back to a 911, perhaps not until I have kids and I have to. Everytime I look at it, I see the engine hanging out in the back and the short wheelbase bucking - even standing still.
lemming
04-25-2008, 06:05 PM
tell me more about intermediate shaft failures.
tell me more about intermediate shaft failures.
There is an article on an Excellence magazine I have (Yes, I subscribed last year :eeps:) That talks about all the issues plaguing the wet sump motors on the 986/996 etc.
I'll dig it up and scan it when I get a chance.
Yup, between spending $2k each on hp and audio, I can get one with hp & audio... Honestly, I don't think I can go back to a 911, perhaps not until I have kids and I have to. Everytime I look at it, I see the engine hanging out in the back and the short wheelbase bucking - even standing still.
I am very torn right now between a Boxster, Cayman, and 911. I have to solve the roadster vs. hardtop question first.
lemming
04-25-2008, 08:24 PM
I am very torn right now between a Boxster, Cayman, and 911. I have to solve the roadster vs. hardtop question first.
i think quality of life is better in a convertible.
(supposedly).
John V
04-25-2008, 09:59 PM
Take it from someone who swore up and down that he'd never own a convertible for all the various compromises they bring to the table...
... I really love having a convertible.
lemming
04-28-2008, 08:29 PM
now that it looks like the 997.5/998 will get mechanical LSD as an extra-cost option, what is the likelihood that the 987/988 will get either a power boost or a mechanical LSD?
now that it looks like the 997.5/998 will get mechanical LSD as an extra-cost option, what is the likelihood that the 987/988 will get either a power boost or a mechanical LSD?
It depends. If it does, they likely won't give it much if any power. I think PAG learned that the 987 is a good enough chassis that the CaymanS is too close to the base 997 for comfort even down 30hp. So if the offer an LSD they may give the Cayman only 10hp so the power spread is now 40hp (305 vs. 345).
But in all likelyhood they wont offer an LSD and boost power modestly to ~310hp.
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