What's the answer to this $30,000 question ??

[3LOU5]

Let me preface this thread by saying "thanks" for all your opinions.

I'm glad I joined a car enthusiast group that has a lot of experiences in buying cars. Me, I don't have much, since I tend to keep my vehicles for a very long time.

That said, I was wondering about this:

Say you have a $30,000 check. The only thing that is not filled out is the "Payable to" line. You go to the dealership and look at the same model car, but with different trim levels and of course, different prices. The price ranges, with all the tax, title, fees, licenses, etc. (i.e. OTD), are between $30,500 to $34,000.

You don't reveal that you have that $30,000 check yet, as you are wondering what is the absolute bottom price you are willing to pay, including a $500 trade-in.

At what price would you go ahead and reveal your check ?? In other words, would you insult the salesman if you offer your check when the OTD price is, say, $31,500 ?? $32,000 ??

Guess what I'm trying to figure out is how much negotiating room will I have, and at what price point would you reveal your check without insulting the salesman ??

Please excuse the newbiness of my question. Like I said, I don't have very much experience in such matters and any tips to save a few bucks are sincerely appreciated.

Also, is there more room in negotiating when buying brand new or CPO ??

Thanks in advance.

[wdc330i]

Not sure about the check tactic.

Typically what I've done (all but one of my cars has been new), is research what the car costs wholesale. Try to ferret out what incentives there are or trunk money, etc. (Do this on enthusiast sites, Edmunds, etc.) And then figure out what profit I'm willing to donate to the dealer.

If you don't like the in-person stuff at the dealer (who does?) Try to deal with the internet sales manager and do everything via email so you're not in their clutches.

Not sure if the big Japanese makers do this. And I remember reading some of Clyde's horror stories.

You might also look into one of those car "buying services" like TrueCar. https://www.truecar.com.

We are USAA members, so we can "buy" a car through them. Meaning they have arrangements with dealers to provide a certain price, and we get a rebate/discount as well. We got a $2,000 USAA discount on the M240i. And for us, that meant $2,000 off the best price I could negotiate with the dealer, after their discounts and so forth.

One last thought is Swapalease. Buy someone else's leased car they are trying to dump--but only if they got a good deal in the first place or are willing to throw money at. (Which means back to researching and knowing the value of brands/years/options/mileage, etc.)

Oh, and generally there is the most room to negotiate on cars (new or CPO) that have been on the lot the longest. That's the only rule of thumb I've heard of. For CPO, you'd determine that by looking at the Carfax history. It should reveal when the dealer bought it.

[JST]

I generally don't think that negotiating tactics like "I have a check that's filled out" are that effective or useful, because at the end of the day if we're a couple of grand apart, why can't you just write a second check? It's a gimmick, basically.

Same thing on the other side. "Oh, my guy already put pinstripes on so I have to charge you for them." Um, no. I don't want the pinstripes, I'm not paying for the pinstripes. You put them on, on spec; the risk that someone wouldn't pay for them is on you.

I second wdc's points above. Don't work down from the asking price; work up from what you can figure out about what the dealer has in the car. It will give you a useful reality check as to what you can realistically expect to negotiate. Don't expect the dealer to sell you the car for a loss, right? Go in with the idea that there's a deal that can be made where the dealer makes some money, you don't pay full price, and everyone is happy.

And then don't stress about it. Haggling for cars is kind of dumb. At the end of the day, if you pay $500 or even $1000 more than the lowest possible price you might have gotten, on a $30,000 car is it really worth tying yourself in knots about? What's your time and effort worth?

I'm perfectly comfortable settling for a deal that might not be the "best" deal if it gets me the car I want at a price that is fair for an investment of effort that is reasonable.

[wdc330i]

I'm perfectly comfortable settling for a deal that might not be the "best" deal if it gets me the car I want at a price that is fair for an investment of effort that is reasonable.

Agreed.

[bren]

Yeah no game playing. Use truecar and forums and whatnot to decide a reasonable price. Then go to dealer and work up to that. If you can't come together, save up another month and try again. Definitely investigate financing from local CU too.

[clyde]

At the end of the day, if you pay $500 or even $1000 more than the lowest possible price you might have gotten, on a $30,000 car is it really worth tying yourself in knots about? What's your time and effort worth?

If I earn $1,000 a day, my time is worth about $1,000 a day. If it takes me less than a day to grind another $1,000 out of a deal, I'm making money.

That's how much my time is wroth.

I'm perfectly comfortable settling for a deal that might not be the "best" deal if it gets me the car I want at a price that is fair for an investment of effort that is reasonable.

That's it exactly.

I agree with the others. The pull out the check thing is kind of silly. That said, don't worry about insulting anyone. No matter what strategy or tactics you use, the system is rigged against you. You cannot insult any of them. Everything they do is designed to separate you from your money in exchange for a shiny object.

I just don't think the check trick will be effective. Know what the car is worth before you go in. Know what you're willing to pay. Don't pay more than that. Don't be afraid to walk out.

[Alan]

I would fill out some of the websites forms and ask for an internet quote ... I find you get one of two things ... one is they try to get you to come in first so they can give you their sales pitch or there is #2 they give you a really good number.


I like your idea of having a check but they make money on financing so that could back fire ... also there is only so much money in every deal ... a $35k car most likely only has a couple of thousand in the deal and every one needs to make a living so I would think $33k would be reasonable as long as there are no incentives involved.

Go to edmunds they give you the list price and the invoice price plus they can tell you the incentives available.

Keep in mind like you probably know ... everyones gotta make living so invoice IMO is not a reasonable offer.

[wdc330i]

I should add that I haven't negotiated a price while sitting at the dealer since buying my first couple of cars in my 20s.

I identify a salesperson to work with, arrange test drives of models I'm interested in. And then I go home and do more homework on price.

If I decide to buy, I get in touch with them by email to either order a car (mostly what I've done) or buy one off the lot if they have what I want (the M240, for instance). We agree to a price via email. I have them send me the detailed price quote. And then I go in with that quote in hand and buy the thing.

If I'm financing, I will have lined up my best non-dealer option. I will listen to their options if they can beat my outside deal. But their financing is never an essential part of the transaction.

I decline all aftermarket--financing guy--add-ons.

And I sell my previous car privately.

[SARAFIL]

+1 on TrueCar, a pretty easy to use resource that can give you a rough idea of what a "good" deal is for any given car. It's hard to give you a one size fits all answer. On one model it might be $500 off and on another it might be $5000. Plug in the make, model and trim and see what it tells you for a price. You can also get a certificate for that price from a local dealer if you don't want to play the game (though if you do you might be able to save even more).

[Biggins]

I agree with most of what has been said. I don't think the check method you mention is the best route.

I did everything through email when we bought the CRV. Despite an unrelated mistake at the dealer, we signed some papers and were gone with little nonsense. I definitely got a deal with which I was content and the financing was sorted through email as well. We did not have a trade, but I had car max give me a quote on my potential trade as a baseline. Do that if you haven't already.

[JST]

I second and third everything people have said about email. I'd much rather conduct a transaction that way than in person. Some dealers won't, but there are enough that will that I don't even bother with the ones that insist I "come in and talk about it."


EDIT: Goddamn I wish the fucking Ospreys would stop flying over my house, though.

EDIT TO EDIT:

Well, I clearly meant to put the last bit in the President Trump thread.

[3LOU5]

Thanks for taking the time and offering some great advice. It certainly gives me a lot of think about.

Including just saying "fuck it" and buying a brand new car.

I hate you guys.

:mad2::mad2::lol::lol:

Just kidding. The last brand new car I bought was my current BMW. I emailed 5 different dealers, gave them the specifics of what I wanted, waited for them to respond with their OTD price.

I then bought the car from the lowest bidder: Ferman BMW near Tampa, FL.

It was certainly painless, since there was really no haggling to speak of, but I'm not thoroughly convinced I got the best possible deal.

:dunno::dunno:

[Sharp11]

The "answer' is forget the check business and you do all your homework ahead of time; find out through various sites already mentioned what invoice prices are, what incentives are available, how well the model you want is selling, then call every dealer within range and negotiate up, not down.

If you're looking to swing something with low miles, like an "executive demo", you can often get a great deal, that's how I bought my wife's Infiniti - it had 2000 miles on it and was a model year old. List was 49k, we paid 38 - after much haggling and walking out etc.

Also, buying at certain times of year, if you can wait, is sometime better - end of December sales are often good.

Have fun!

[John V]

I have nothing to offer, having never bought a new car. My wife has, and from observation I wouldn't try the "check" approach even if you were speaking purely metaphorically.

We went in to buy the Mazdaspeed fully expecting to pay around $20k for it. We had waited until the next model was in showrooms and found a dealer that had a couple leftovers of the previous one, which is the one we wanted. She pretty quickly got the price down quite a bit lower, and told them we'd leave a deposit and be back on Monday to close the deal since my credit union wasn't open on Saturday. They obviously wanted us to close and asked if we'd buy it today if they could match the 0.99 rate, obviously wanting the spiff... so we agreed, they did, and we drove it home. I think all in, with taxes and plates and without them trying to add on a bunch of extras (aside from a $4k extended warranty we declined) it was around $20,200. Would we have gotten to that deal offering cash? Maybe, I dunno, but they were definitely motivated at least in part to get their cut of the financing.

[Jeff_DML]

... Would we have gotten to that deal offering cash? Maybe, I dunno, but they were definitely motivated at least in part to get their cut of the financing.

yeah that is what I have read, dealers prefer financing since they usually get a cut so cash is not king.

And for the email all the dealer thing use to work for me 15 years ago but recent years they want you come in to discuss:rolleyes:

I also use the costco/credit union car buying deals as a reference for prices that I can get and then try to beat.

[3LOU5]

The "answer' is forget the check business and you do all your homework ahead of time; find out through various sites already mentioned what invoice prices are, what incentives are available, how well the model you want is selling, then call every dealer within range and negotiate up, not down.

If you're looking to swing something with low miles, like an "executive demo", you can often get a great deal, that's how I bought my wife's Infiniti - it had 2000 miles on it and was a model year old. List was 49k, we paid 38 - after much haggling and walking out etc.

Also, buying at certain times of year, if you can wait, is sometime better - end of December sales are often good.

Have fun!

Thanks. I wouldn't consider buying a car as "fun". I'd rather go to the dentist and get a root canal, LOL.

The ideal CPO would be what you just described: an executive demo. I just need to figure out how to find that out prior to purchasing it.

They say the best time to buy a car is between Christmas and New Year's Day - end of the month, end of the year, etc. I think I might pull the trigger earlier, when the '18s come out in mid-year. Then, if the dealerships are looking to get rid of the '17s to make room for the new models, they're likely to have more negotiating room.

[3LOU5]

yeah that is what I have read, dealers prefer financing since they usually get a cut so cash is not king.

And for the email all the dealer thing use to work for me 15 years ago but recent years they want you come in to discuss:rolleyes:

I also use the costco/credit union car buying deals as a reference for prices that I can get and then try to beat.

I am a Costco Executive Member, and will try and look into their Auto Purchase Program as well.

And I WILL try and do most of the transactions/negotiations via email. I'm more likely to maintain my cool and not be so hot-headed, LOL.

[3LOU5]

I have nothing to offer, having never bought a new car. My wife has, and from observation I wouldn't try the "check" approach even if you were speaking purely metaphorically.

We went in to buy the Mazdaspeed fully expecting to pay around $20k for it. We had waited until the next model was in showrooms and found a dealer that had a couple leftovers of the previous one, which is the one we wanted. She pretty quickly got the price down quite a bit lower, and told them we'd leave a deposit and be back on Monday to close the deal since my credit union wasn't open on Saturday. They obviously wanted us to close and asked if we'd buy it today if they could match the 0.99 rate, obviously wanting the spiff... so we agreed, they did, and we drove it home. I think all in, with taxes and plates and without them trying to add on a bunch of extras (aside from a $4k extended warranty we declined) it was around $20,200. Would we have gotten to that deal offering cash? Maybe, I dunno, but they were definitely motivated at least in part to get their cut of the financing.

How did you like the Mazda ?? Was it easy to do DIY maintenance on it ??

The CX-9 is one of my top picks. They say it's one of the most trouble-free SUVs according to some guys in the Mazda forums.

I'm looking for a vehicle that matches my Honda's reliability and ease-of-maintenance.

[Biggins]

They say the best time to buy a car is between Christmas and New Year's Day - end of the month, end of the year, etc. I think I might pull the trigger earlier, when the '18s come out in mid-year. Then, if the dealerships are looking to get rid of the '17s to make room for the new models, they're likely to have more negotiating room.
We picked up the CR-V right after Thanksgiving last year and about two weeks before they started receiving the new, redesigned 2017s. They definitely wanted to move them!

[wdc330i]

How did you like the Mazda ?? Was it easy to do DIY maintenance on it ??

The CX-9 is one of my top picks. They say it's one of the most trouble-free SUVs according to some guys in the Mazda forums.

I'm looking for a vehicle that matches my Honda's reliability and ease-of-maintenance.

So, if you got the Ridgeline, could you replace the minivan and the truck? Or is it an essential tow vehicle?

Just a thought....

[dan]

We picked up the CR-V right after Thanksgiving last year and about two weeks before they started receiving the new, redesigned 2017s. They definitely wanted to move them!

We did the same with our CX-9 many years ago. We paid thousands and thousands below invoice

[3LOU5]

So, if you got the Ridgeline, could you replace the minivan and the truck? Or is it an essential tow vehicle?

Just a thought....

My beater truck is essentially a tow vehicle (for my boat), a snow vehicle (the Ody does surprisingly well in the snow, my BMW not so much) and a back-up vehicle (should any of our vehicles are in the shop for major repairs, or if I'm doing some maintenance on them myself).

We're looking to try a mid-size SUV, since we've never had anything like them before. It just fits nicely to our "fleet" due to its multipurpose capabilities, sort of like a minivan, but cooler, LOL.

[Jeff_DML]

Given a blank check for $32,000, most car enthusiasts would drive themselves and any innocent bystander crazy.

:D

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/best-of-bmw-reviewed-new-vs-used-228i-vs-z4m-1792654524?rev=1487862742512

[JST]

Bet you could get this for 30k.

http://bringatrailer.com/2017/03/01/rare-383-big-block-wagon-1969-dodge-coronet-500-nine-passenger/

[3LOU5]

Bet you could get this for 30k.

http://bringatrailer.com/2017/03/01/rare-383-big-block-wagon-1969-dodge-coronet-500-nine-passenger/

Um……yeahno.

[John V]

How did you like the Mazda ?? Was it easy to do DIY maintenance on it ??

The CX-9 is one of my top picks. They say it's one of the most trouble-free SUVs according to some guys in the Mazda forums.

I'm looking for a vehicle that matches my Honda's reliability and ease-of-maintenance.

It has been the most reliable vehicle we've ever owned. Absolutely fantastic. Generally pretty easy to work on, but it's FWD so there are going to be things that are annoying. It's got 172,000 miles on it and my wife has no desire to get rid of it.

Compared to my buddy's (now sold) '06 Civic, the Mazda has been far less repair intensive.

[lip277]

Bet you could get this for 30k.

http://bringatrailer.com/2017/03/01/rare-383-big-block-wagon-1969-dodge-coronet-500-nine-passenger/

Oh - that would be AWESOME!!!!!!
:eeps: :cool:
:lol: