Are people losing interest in cars?

[Sharp11]

My wife sent this to me today; might be food for thought. As I mentioned earlier, many of my college students either don't have cars, or don't even have licenses .

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/business/automakers-prepare-america-fewer-cars.html?hpw&rref=automobiles&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=0

[rumatt]

Yes

[TD]

I would agree. I think it applies to me too.

I still care way more than most people but I care so much less than I used to. Heck, I wouldn't be able to stand daily driving a high-mileage underpowered slushbox E39 if I still cared at the level I used to. (Granted, it is still a much better can than most cars on the market today. But it's hardly the shit.)

Then again, what do I know.

[dan]

Yes

[rumatt]

I would agree. I think it applies to me too.

I still care way more than most people but I care so much less than I used to. Heck, I wouldn't be able to stand daily driving a high-mileage underpowered slushbox E39 if I still cared at the level I used to. (Granted, it is still a much better can than most cars on the market today. But it's hardly the shit.)

Then again, what do I know.
I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did with that slush box.

Shocked actually.

[TD]

I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did with that slush box.

Shocked actually.



I'm still driving it.

Every time I start to think about buying a new car, I wince at the price and bag the idea.

It's funny how, on one hand, I make more money than I ever have while, on the other, I'm so much more sensitive to the price of some things. The only things I seem less price sensitive to are the price of a nice bottle of wine and the cost of a exceptional meal out. Everything else seems so damn expensive these days.

I'm getting old.

[rumatt]

Every time I start to think about buying a new car, I wince at the price and bag the idea.
Trust me I get it. If there were a car out there that got me excited I'd buy it. But the price tags are way to high for something that feels like a compromise.

And yes. Old we are.

[JST]

I hear what all of you are saying. The youngs are not so into cars. I am getting old.

But I probably would buy a new Golf R this weekend if I could get a salesman to talk to me when I go to the dealer.

Side note: I hate VW dealers with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

[bren]

Side note: I hate VW dealers with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

My sister bought a GTI a few weekends ago. They had to travel 4 hours to find a dealer who would work with them at all.

[ff]

Yes, I've lost almost all interest. Sharing the road with Floridian dimwits every day is borderline excruciating, sapping almost all the life out of my time behind the wheel. There's nothing enjoyable about it anymore.

When are the fully autonomous cars ready for prime time? Not soon enough.

[3LOU5]

I am.

I guess I have too many interests that spread me thin - RVing, boating, wakeboarding, skiing, two Harleys, snowboarding, vacuuming....

:lol:

But seriously, I am actually interested in replacing our Odyssey with either a Toyota Highlander, Mazda CX-9 or Honda Pilot, so my research continues on....

[zach]

I still love cars.

[blee]

My interest in cars definitely waned over the past 10 years or so, but that coincided with my transition back to school, followed by the birth (and subsequent presence) of little kids, then a period of geographical bachelorhood. I find myself drawn back lately, although my budget isn't any better than it used to be.

[John V]

I still love cars.

Same

[kognito]

I still love cars.

This, but I care less and less about what I drive.

[IndyMike]

I still enjoy cars, and the time I spend behind the wheel is important enough to me that I want that connected feeling as much as I can manage. Manuals are still important enough that I need to have at least one in the stable, but the type of tranny is secondary to the feeling you get when the vehicle is an extension of your body and that the melding of the two at its height releases endorphins that give you that crap eating grin on ones face.

New vehicles today just don't exude the anticipation of that kind of nirvana anymore, but I still like to read, talk as well as crawl around in them when I can without some salesman hounding me.

How much of a car guy you still are can probably wrapped up in the question when was the last time you went to any Auto Show, or car related convention.

I just went to the local Indy show on Tuesday. It pretty much sucked, and the number of companies and vehicles represented are getting fewer and fewer each year. MBZ, Porsche and Audi didn't even make an appearance, and all 8 Jaguars at the show were locked. Even the FoRS on display was likely the same "Concept" vehicle they trotted out at the Chicago Auto Show I attended in February, and hence was locked. But at least it and the Shelby GT 350 (also locked and cordoned off) were there.

Not sure if all of this is related to not getting enough bang for the buck and the hassles of setting up your display, but it can't portend much promise if the problem is the number of attendee's are diminishing year by year.

[Biggins]

I keep telling myself that I don't "secretly" judge people by their cars like I used to (unless they're driving a Camry/Prius), but...

I still love cars. Unfortunately, I only love one of the three cars we own now. I'm hoping to fix that in the next year or so.

It's definitely a fact that you don't NEED a car to live in a city, but I'm okay with that if it gives me more parking.

[JST]

Re: auto shows. Planning to go to NAIAS again this year. But I'm also going to CES next week, and I think it's emblematic of the way things that are going that that is now almost as much an "auto show" as NAIAS.

[rumatt]

I still love cars.
I care less and less about what I drive.

Neither of these statements is true for me. I definitely care what I drive. If you put me in a FWD automatic vehicle I'd have to go on antidepressants. I still have PTSD from that Ford Fusion I rented this summer.

But given my actions it's hard to argue that I love cars. I went a good 10 years without buying a car and barely read about them. Most new cars bore me and I have no interest in the path they've gone. The ones that seem cool-ish are too expensive and/or impractical for me to get excited about writing the check.

So maybe I do love cars but I'm too old, bitter and stuck in the past to enjoy it? :speechle:

[Josh (PA)]

I think it is just there are less interesting cars.

[ZBB]

I haven't really lost my interest, but nothing out there really excites me much anymore.

I used to read car mags the day they arrived cover to cover. Now I only have 2 subscriptions, and I'm going to let them lapse when they come up since I don't even look through them anymore.

I'm not even interested in replacing my current car all that much (and in 2 months I'll have owned it longer than any other car, and I've already put ~15K+ miles on it than any prior car). We went to the local (and pathetic) auto show over Thanksgiving since my wife wanted to go look at cars. I mostly sat in things she wanted to look at -- the only other car I sat in was a 911 (and they had a gorgeous red over tan base 911 on the floor…).

[ZBB]

I think it is just there are less interesting cars.

And more ugly cars...

[Alan]

Isn't this a forum of people who all got together with the common interest being cars !?!?


I love cars and have a great passion for them, getting a new car is an awesome feeling. We just got a few new cars and I love getting in them to drive them. They smell good, they feel solid, they have great engines, great transmissions, super cool technology features and drive really well.

Also love my 2 sports cars and get a huge thrill out of driving them ...

In addition I don't see this article applying to my kids or their friends ... a bunch of them love their cars, were super excited to get them and even like doing things to their cars. I've counted at least 3 328's in the group with tinted windows and blacked out or customs rims. One even has a tune ... another of their friends has the new mustang ...

Here in Long Island the passion lives on.

[Alan]

I used to read car mags the day they arrived cover to cover. Now I only have 2 subscriptions, and I'm going to let them lapse when they come up since I don't even look through them anymore.

.

You don't need car magazines any longer because of the internet plus actual magazines are annoying to read once you get used to reading online.

Btw you can get electronic versions of the magazines and it is a great way to read them plus they are interactive. I find I throw away the paper versions I still get here and there and only really read the electronic versions.

[bren]

Most new cars bore me and I have no interest in the path they've gone. The ones that seem cool-ish are too expensive and/or impractical for me to get excited about writing the check.

So maybe I do love cars but I'm too old, bitter and stuck in the past to enjoy it? :speechle:

This.

[rumatt]

We just got a few new cars and I love getting in them to drive them. They smell good, they feel solid, they have great engines, great transmissions, super cool technology features and drive really well.
We're so different in this regard. I've never desired new cars. I like the familiarity I have with the existing cars. Knowing they are customized exactly the way I like them. I know how they react when I do certain things, the sounds they make, they limitations they have.

It takes me a while to get used to a new car and feel comfortable in it. I only get excited about a new car when I want it to do so something that the current car doesn't do.

I like variety in many aspects of life, but cars isn't one of them.

[SARAFIL]

There are definitely some macro factors that impact how cars are built and how we use them.

1) technology - which probably takes away some of the "raw" or "mechanical" qualities I think many of us liked in some older models. Many new cars are basically a box built around the iPad in the dashboard.

2) a lot of change to adapt to new regulations (crash standards, pedestrian safety, fuel economy) and some of that has also taken away some of the flexibility automakers had with design and other details. Some is good (ability to reduce weight) but some is also bad (higher hoods due to pedestrian safety standards)

3) usage patterns - hard to say the convenience of Uber, etc hasn't changed things - in particular for teens/millennials and city dwellers

[TD]

Neither of these statements is true for me. I definitely care what I drive. If you put me in a FWD automatic vehicle I'd have to go on antidepressants. I still have PTSD from that Ford Fusion I rented this summer.

But given my actions it's hard to argue that I love cars. I went a good 10 years without buying a car and barely read about them. Most new cars bore me and I have no interest in the path they've gone. The ones that seem cool-ish are too expensive and/or impractical for me to get excited about writing the check.

So maybe I do love cars but I'm too old, bitter and stuck in the past to enjoy it? :speechle:



This sums up my take pretty well. I couldn't drive just anything. But almost all new cars don't stir me enough to even consider writing a check and most old cars make no sense.

From a practical standpoint, I'm going to need a newer car at some point. But I do still have a deposit down on the Tesla Model 3. I'll probably not do anything until I rule that in or out.

[clyde]

I dig cars and truly enjoy driving...if not for all the stupid fucking funsuckers and non-attention paying turdtools that make driving much less pleasurable than it should be.

[ff]

I dig cars and truly enjoy driving...if not for all the stupid fucking funsuckers and non-attention paying turdtools that make driving much less pleasurable than it should be.

It's interesting because every time we're vacationing in the DC area, I always comment about how much more observant and courteous the drivers are there.

[Plaz]

I dig cars and truly enjoy driving...if not for all the stupid fucking funsuckers and non-attention paying turdtools that make driving much less pleasurable than it should be.

:+1

I did enjoy it more out in SoCal, though, where there was a seemingly endless supply of new interesting twisty roads always available within a couple hours drive.

[clyde]

It's interesting because every time we're vacationing in the DC area, I always comment about how much more observant and courteous the drivers are there.

The time Ive spent driving in Florida, I have not thought they were particularly better or worse than around here. And most of the dumbest stuff done by vehicles with out of state tags. :dunno:

But, seriously, its bad here and getting worse.

[clyde]

:+1

I did enjoy it more out in SoCal, though, where there was a seemingly endless supply of new interesting twisty roads always available within a couple hours drive.

I'm not talking about going out to drive for fun, but about finding enjoyment in the relay everyday and how so many people we have to share the road with are hell bent on not just preventing others from enjoying simple things, but turning them into miserable experiences for everyone else because they don't give a shit.

[FC]

Same

:+1

[lupinsea]

I don't know about the rest of you old farts, but this old fart (I turned 40 this past spring) is finding that it's a time / energy issue.

There was a time where I'd really enjoy just going out for a drive. Late at night cruising along my favorite route through the city, or bombing along the back roads. And I still enjoy that but there are other priorities, other things that are more important. So there is less time to do the drives.

And . . . budget issues are a bigger deal now, too, as are certain practical needs. These influence what cars our family gets. I still want to drive something fun and interesting but it takes a back seat to certain requirements of being able to fit the whole family, being reliable, and in budget.

Also, given that I get out and "just" drive so much less these days, the daily commute slog is a bigger consideration. Maybe it's laziness or getting beat down by bumper-to-bumper traffic but I want a better tool for the majority of my driving than a manual. I can see getting a stick again later (if they're still around), but for right now, the automatic is a very good fit for me.

In any case, I'm finding I'm enjoying doing other things with my car besides "just" driving. It's going on road trips, it's driving somewhere with my family, it's going out camping, it's hauling the mountain bikes to the trailhead, it's heading to the shooting range, it's towing my trailer around (yes, I get a weird sense of satisfaction out of that). All things I can do better in a less "enthusiast focused" car.

Go figure.

But I still like cars.

I still look forward to driving my current car.




.

[TD]

In spite of all of my "aging" with respect to my enthusiasm in this area, I still have no complaints at all driving a stick in traffic.

[John V]

I still enjoy driving. I take back roads to work rather than the highways, as often as is practical. Part of the reason I bought another Boxster is it's more fun in traffic than an Accord is on a twisty road. So while I don't just go out for a drive anymore, it's still worth it to me to have an engaging car.

What I'm losing interest in is BMWs. Even their most entry level models are too overrun with electronics, and the reliability and build quality has gotten so poor that I really wouldn't consider buying or leasing anything they currently have on the market. That's kind of sad, but time marches on.

[clyde]

In spite of all of my "aging" with respect to my enthusiasm in this area, I still have no complaints at all driving a stick in traffic.

I have occasional anger issues with the manual in stop and go in the FoST. There is some "I know better than you" computerized throttle action that goes on when the clutch is at all depressed that makes the throttle ramp up high and fast as it approaches disengagement. If you can get it disengaged, you can slow back down, but it's rough and abrupt and youhave to get over the hump. Very annoying at times, where a purely mechanical setup would be much smoother.

[Jeff_DML]

In spite of all of my "aging" with respect to my enthusiasm in this area, I still have no complaints at all driving a stick in traffic.

but don’t you daily drive a automatic? :dunno:

[Plaz]

In spite of all of my "aging" with respect to my enthusiasm in this area, I still have no complaints at all driving a stick in traffic.

:+1

In fact, I still prefer it.

[Plaz]

I have occasional anger issues with the manual in stop and go in the FoST. There is some "I know better than you" computerized throttle action that goes on when the clutch is at all depressed that makes the throttle ramp up high and fast as it approaches disengagement. If you can get it disengaged, you can slow back down, but it's rough and abrupt and youhave to get over the hump. Very annoying at times, where a purely mechanical setup would be much smoother.

That sounds maddening.

[Terri Kennedy]

I like the familiarity I have with the existing cars. Knowing they are customized exactly the way I like them. I know how they react when I do certain things, the sounds they make, they limitations they have.
Yup. The wagon is 14.5 years old now, and has 100K+ on it. I have it configured just about exactly the way I want it, and its maintenance needs are relatively small. It may help that it started out as the highest-optioned E46 wagon BMWNA ever sold, and then I added a bunch of not-available-in-the-US options to it, along with aftermarket goodies (StealthOne, Phatbox, auto-window-close via rain sensor, USB port for configuring the car's options, etc.).

I don't think I'd have the interest or energy to do all that with a newer car, even if it was possible (so many things that are easy to do on the E46 i-bus are far more difficult or outright impossible on the newer models).

I only get excited about a new car when I want it to do so something that the current car doesn't do.
I think I got just about all of that out of my system when I had the Atom. :D

If I got another car at this point, it would likely be something old-ish and with character.

Meanwhile, the wagon is still good for fun stuff like this (Summer '16, Mojave):

https://www.glaver.org/transient/IMG_1382-s.jpg

Not too many people go up there any more, because this is the "road" to there:

https://www.glaver.org/transient/IMG_1359-s.jpg

[rumatt]

In spite of all of my "aging" with respect to my enthusiasm in this area, I still have no complaints at all driving a stick in traffic.
Same. I don't understand the complaints.

If the clutch were heavy then sure. But my cars clutches are light enough that ice never once wished for an automatic.

Now, if they'll self drive so I can read tablet instead of driving that's a different story.

[TD]

but don’t you daily drive a automatic? :dunno:



Most days, yes. But that doesn't change my statement.

[TD]

:+1



In fact, I still prefer it.



This.

[Alan]

Same. I don't understand the complaints.

If the clutch were heavy then sure. But my cars clutches are light enough that ice never once wished for an automatic.

Now, if they'll self drive so I can read tablet instead of driving that's a different story.

One of our cars has adaptive cruise control and can steer itself ... in traffic it is really cool ...

With that said I haven't driven a manual in traffic in ages though I can say with certainty that I prefer an automatic.

[robg]

One of our cars has adaptive cruise control and can steer itself ... in traffic it is really cool ...

With that said I haven't driven a manual in traffic in ages though I can say with certainty that I prefer an automatic.

My feeling is that if you're going to get an automatic, you should definitely get adaptive cruise w/ stop and go. Having the car basically drive itself in traffic jams sounds great, and it's a must-have feature for me on whichever car I get next. I almost specced it when I ordered my F10, but got annoyed at the price and that they decided not to include the traffic jam assist (auto steering) feature on US models. In retrospect, I should've just gotten it. If you have to have an automatic you might as well have a true "automatic". :) And I think that's where my head is at when it comes to new cars now--the main reason to buy/lease new is to get a nice tech feature unavailable in older cars. If you're buying a car soley for style and driver involvement, it's probably not worth buying new anymore unless it's a special/niche car but those are mostly out my price range (488 etc). So it annoys me to no end when I see that most dealers spec their cars the same way I could've bought an e46 back in 2004. I mean, why bother then?

Strangely, it's easier to find cars from mainstream manufacturers with adaptive cruise on dealer lots. I think it's because luxury manufacturers tend to bundle it only with higher trim levels or other pricey options and then charge a ridiculous amount on top of that. Most dealers will add 1 or 2 options/packages to their inventory cars. VW seems to be the most liberal at offering it as an option now, and their pricing is great. But, VW.

That being said, my recollection is that driving a manual in traffic was less tiring than driving an automatic for some reason.

[rumatt]

That being said, my recollection is that driving a manual in traffic was less tiring than driving an automatic for some reason.
Because the automatic is always pulling you forward and you have to keep pushing on the brake to stop it.

[wdc330i]

The Auto-H function helps this problem a bit, but it doesn't come in the 3 series or 2 series yet. Just the X5.

[John V]

Because the automatic is always pulling you forward and you have to keep pushing on the brake to stop it.

VW (and probably other makers) DSG is perfect in this regard. Teslas and Volts (and I imagine the Bolt as well) are also good.

But still, I prefer a good stick in traffic.

[blee]

I dig cars and truly enjoy driving...if not for all the stupid fucking funsuckers and non-attention paying turdtools that make driving much less pleasurable than it should be.

Yes.

[robg]

The Auto-H function helps this problem a bit, but it doesn't come in the 3 series or 2 series yet. Just the X5.

I have Auto-h on my 5 as well. It's nice, but in real stop and go traffic it can make things a bit jerky. Better suited for traffic lights i think. Full range adaptive cruise is even better - and fortunatley that's available on the 3 as well.

[robg]

VW (and probably other makers) DSG is perfect in this regard. Teslas and Volts (and I imagine the Bolt as well) are also good.

But still, I prefer a good stick in traffic.

Yes, but DSG brings its own issues when driving in stop and go traffic -- namely the somewhat unpredictable response from stop. I'd find that way more annoying than having to hold the brake pedal in a traditional auto. Agree that EVs solve this problem.