Porsche 718

[John V]

A none-too-complimentary Evo review.

http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/boxster/17792/porsche-718-boxster-review-why-everything-porsche-touches-doesn-t-always-turn

[bren]

Oh my. Yikes.

What’s it like to drive?

Disappointing. Underwhelming. Soul destroying. All words and phrases I never thought I’d write about a Porsche sports car, but the 2-litre Boxster is a poor Porsche and the disappointment focuses on the moment the engine starts.

As if the Porsche used car bubble needed any more wind in its sail. Ugh.

[JST]

Ouch.

[dan]

Disappointing. Underwhelming. Soul destroying. All words and phrases I never thought I’d write about a Porsche sports car, but the 2-litre Boxster is a poor Porsche and the disappointment focuses on the moment the engine starts.

3 1/2 STARS!

[FC]

Damn.

[Plaz]

yJxCdh1Ps48

[Sharp11]

"If you, or a friend, ever owned an air-cooled VW Beetle you’ll immediately recognise the unsophisticated clatter when you hear a 2-litre Boxster for the first time. "

Well, i owned two, a 63 Beetle, and a '71 Super Beetle - but neither one could do 0-60 in 4.9 seconds ... lol

[rumatt]

As if the Porsche used car bubble needed any more wind in its sail. Ugh.
This was part of what was interesting me in grabbing a lightly used cayman now. I may have missed my window!

[bren]

This was part of what was interesting me in grabbing a lightly used cayman now. I may have missed my window!

I think that is happening to me with a 911.

[rumatt]

Plus you just don't have enough cars in general. :p

[John V]

Two years in, we have zero regrets from the Boxster purchase. We both absolutely love it.

[rumatt]

Two years in, we have zero regrets from the Boxster purchase. We both absolutely love it.
Posts like this aren't helping. Damn you.

[John V]

Posts like this aren't helping. Damn you.

The 987S is a performance bargain right now. Last of the hydraulically assisted steering cars, and the same engine used in the 981. Buy buy buy buy :D

[JST]

What JV said. Every minute you spend not owning one is a minute you will never get back.

[Theo]

This would have more an effect on the 981 then the 987 I assume but yes the further depreciation curve I was still hoping for on 2010-2011 S's will now not happen. =(

Good call getting in early JV.

[rumatt]

I liked this one but he's not replying so I assume it's sold

http://www.panjo.com/buy/fs-2011-cayman-s-17k-mi-one-owner-282152?index=13

[rumatt]

For what it's worth, I think the 718 will do just fine. Sure the existing Porsche owners are freaking out (and holy crap is there a lot of hate in the porsche forums), and the initial version may have some issues. But they'll get the turbo figured out eventually (maybe they need to put the better turbo on the base version, too, etc) and plenty of people will buy it.

And ore importantly... they'll sell even more 911's now. Net win for them.

I still find it extreely upsetting that they cripple the car that is the better platform, but they've done that all along.

[John V]

I'm sure they will sell lots of them. And they will put up amazing numbers. I think for a lot of "purists," whatever that means, they will be disappointed. I don't realistically see the new car making the older ones rise in value. Independent of cars like the GT4 which are going to be desirable regardless.

[JST]

Car and Driver has a test of the 718 this month, and comes to the same conclusion that Evo did. Something has definitely been lost.

They also have a paen to the Boxster Spyder, which for the time being retains the N/A 3.8. Are those as unobtanium as the GT4s?

I mean, they're also 100K, which is silly for a 3rd car. But if you want to buy something like a 911R that isn't a 911R, that's probably the best option.

[Jeff_DML]

Car and Driver has a test of the 718 this month, and comes to the same conclusion that Evo did. Something has definitely been lost.

They also have a paen to the Boxster Spyder, which for the time being retains the N/A 3.8. Are those as unobtanium as the GT4s?

I mean, they're also 100K, which is silly for a 3rd car. But if you want to buy something like a 911R that isn't a 911R, that's probably the best option.

Guy who sold me my turbo replaced it with the spyder. He seemed to like it:)

[bren]

I saw a spider at Cars&Coffee this past weekend. But then there was also a GT4 there so....

[Plaz]

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/chris-harris-drives-porsche-718-boxster

I can’t remember being more emotionally confused in advance of twisting a key before: intrigued, fascinated and, well, worried. The starter churns smartly and then, ker-thrum, a little blurt from the sports exhaust and the voice in my head says: “It’s a Beetle”.

Ten seconds later, it says, “Nope, it’s a Subaru” and promptly changes its mind to: “Actually, it’s a 1969 Porsche 912.” Confusion reigns because I’m trying to categorise the noise, and because I cannot square the noise with the appearance of the vehicle. It looks like a Boxster, so it should make Boxster noises, you know, yelpy flat-sixy-sexy, all expensive and Porsche sounding. This parps like a Beetle, or a Scooby, or a 912.

[rumatt]

http://www.planet-9.com/718-chat/143729-718-s-test-drive-didnt-expect.html#/forumsite/21136/topics/143729?page=1


I got to test drive a 718 S today and I have to say I didn't expect the positive reaction I had...I think a test drive may win over many of the 4-cyl sceptics and it will win over most potential customers that currently don't own a Porsche.

The torque delivery is amazing

[Jeff_DML]

http://www.planet-9.com/718-chat/143729-718-s-test-drive-didnt-expect.html#/forumsite/21136/topics/143729?page=1

Reviews I have do not complain about torque but lack of smoothness and sound compared to the 6.

[JST]

And the S generally has been better reviewed than the non S.

[rumatt]

Reviews I have do not complain about torque but lack of smoothness and sound compared to the 6.
Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out that some existing cayman owners are starting to give positive reviews.




.

[John V]

I guess I'm getting old because the current trend of making intentionally-rowdy four cylinder turbo cars seems juvenile to me and not fitting with the type of car the Boxster is. In a Focus RS, or even the Fiat 500 Abarth I'm sort of okay with it if they program the ECU to make the wastegate pop and belch. But in a Boxster? :rolleyes: Even in the new Miata-based Fiat roadster, they programmed the engine to act like this. It's just not my bag I guess.

Driving home today with the top down I realized again that the engine is one of the things I like best about the Boxster. It's not obscenely powerful, but it just drips with character without being obnoxious. It has the right amount of bark from the exhaust and yowl from the intake when you're flogging it, but when you settle into a cruise it just smoothly hums behind you. BMW engines were like this as well and none did it better than the S50 in the E36 M3.

I'm sure the four cylinder Boxster is faster and more fuel efficient and cheaper to make but I feel like in a few years I'm going to be starting a "the car I want doesn't exist" thread.

[FC]

I guess I'm getting old because the current trend of making intentionally-rowdy four cylinder turbo cars seems juvenile to me and not fitting with the type of car the Boxster is. In a Focus RS, or even the Fiat 500 Abarth I'm sort of okay with it if they program the ECU to make the wastegate pop and belch. But in a Boxster? :rolleyes: Even in the new Miata-based Fiat roadster, they programmed the engine to act like this. It's just not my bag I guess.

Driving home today with the top down I realized again that the engine is one of the things I like best about the Boxster. It's not obscenely powerful, but it just drips with character without being obnoxious. It has the right amount of bark from the exhaust and yowl from the intake when you're flogging it, but when you settle into a cruise it just smoothly hums behind you. BMW engines were like this as well and none did it better than the S50 in the E36 M3.

I'm sure the four cylinder Boxster is faster and more fuel efficient and cheaper to make but I feel like in a few years I'm going to be starting a "the car I want doesn't exist" thread.

:+1

It's a bit like the E90 to F80 move. But in a sedan, the practical and useful gains of gobs of low end torque and better range on what many consider a DD can offset the loss of cylinders, revs, and sound.

But in a roadster? Nah. Certainly since my '07 3.4L, the recent NA H6's had enough power and torque for what the Boxster is.

I salute Mazda for keeping the Miata NA (no pun intended)... though a bit disappointed on the engine output.

[Sharp11]

On the other hand, if you're of a certain age, you'll recall that all those cool european cars had four cylinder engines: the BMW 1600 through 2002's (and early three series), MGB's, Fiats, Alfas, Triumphs, Porsches ... and a whole bunch more - were all four cylinder, high revving, somewhat noisy, but fun as hell sports and GT cars.

Of course, cars are much different today, they're larger and heavier, and packed with tech, but so are the fours that are powering them. I'm curious about a Boxster with a four, it won't be like a 1969 911, but I'm thinking it brings back some of that old magic.

Now if it were only possible to buy a real stripper.

The Miata and new Fiat preserve this old formula, too, it's nice to have choices.

[ZBB]

For FYI, the 4-cylinder version of the 911 was the 912... The 911 has always been a flat 6.

[Sharp11]

For FYI, the 4-cylinder version of the 911 was the 912... The 911 has always been a flat 6.

Yes, you are correct.

In the modern era (loosely defined) 914's, 924's, 944's, 968's - all fours, too :)

[ZBB]

Yes, you are correct.

In the modern era (loosely defined) 914's, 924's, 944's, 968's - all fours, too :)

of course… But none of those were based on the 911 :D

[Sharp11]

of course… But none of those were based on the 911 :D

Nope, developed by VW, yes? If I recall, wasn't the 914 supposed to be a VW and the 924 (which beget the 944 and 968) Audi products?

Still, I loved the 944, if Porsche still built that car today, I'd want it - I never could afford one back in the 80's. The singer in a band I was in had one (she was wealthy), I drove it, it was terrific - however, with memory being the brain's worst processing skill, it probably really sucked by today's standards.

I've often wondered what it would be like to walk right into the past - pick the year - and drive the cars we remember as being great. All those years in-between of experiencing the changes in cars, and with the benefit of hindsight, I wonder what they'd feel like to our 2016 brains and bodies?

[Theo]

I guess I'm getting old because the current trend of making intentionally-rowdy four cylinder turbo cars seems juvenile to me and not fitting with the type of car the Boxster is. In a Focus RS, or even the Fiat 500 Abarth I'm sort of okay with it if they program the ECU to make the wastegate pop and belch. But in a Boxster? :rolleyes: Even in the new Miata-based Fiat roadster, they programmed the engine to act like this. It's just not my bag I guess.

Driving home today with the top down I realized again that the engine is one of the things I like best about the Boxster. It's not obscenely powerful, but it just drips with character without being obnoxious. It has the right amount of bark from the exhaust and yowl from the intake when you're flogging it, but when you settle into a cruise it just smoothly hums behind you. BMW engines were like this as well and none did it better than the S50 in the E36 M3.

I'm sure the four cylinder Boxster is faster and more fuel efficient and cheaper to make but I feel like in a few years I'm going to be starting a "the car I want doesn't exist" thread.

I totally agree with this. For me though it's that V8 sound that my ears and heart love. This is why I want an E90 M3. I love the 6.2 liter in the E and C AMG's to. I wish the C had a manual.

[John V]

The 944/968 was a good car in spite of its engine, not because of it.

[FC]

I wish the C had a manual.

:+1

[Alan]

I totally agree with this. For me though it's that V8 sound that my ears and heart love. This is why I want an E90 M3. I love the 6.2 liter in the E and C AMG's to. I wish the C had a manual.

I love the sound and the torquey feel of the 8 cylinders as well ... 3 and of my 4 cars are 8 cylinders though unfortunately that will change to 1 out of 4 by the end of this year :(

[John V]

On the topic of going back and driving cars that were great back in the day, I've had the opportunity to drive some time-capsule cars in the not-too-distant past. Neither one of them were as good as I remembered, but they were both entertaining.

[FC]

I love the sound and the torquey feel of the 8 cylinders as well ... 3 and of my 4 cars are 8 cylinders though unfortunately that will change to 1 out of 4 by the end of this year :(

I got a pimped-out, entry-level loaner Cayenne when I dropped off my TT for a CV joint fix before selling it, and coming from my LR4, it just sounded like hell - rough, laggy and weak off idle. I love my 5.0 V8.

[Theo]

I got a pimped-out, entry-level loaner Cayenne when I dropped off my TT for a CV joint fix before selling it, and coming from my LR4, it just sounded like hell - rough, laggy and weak off idle. I love my 5.0 V8.

Are they still putting V6's in the entry level models?

[equ]

I'm with FC & JV here. A good amount of the porsche joy comes from the smooth, revvy flat-6 engine, especially in its 2009+, 9A1 iteration. It's such a joy in how it responds and how it sounds. I don't care how much more torque the car gets, it's a fail to go turbo-four. Even the base torque-less 2.7 is a joy to rev (and the 09-12 2.9 was better in torque & gearing). It's a way to push people into gt4/spyder territory if you want your mid-engined car with a six.

On the mid-engined porsches, the 3.4's are pretty much perfect for tackling a tight mountain road, the 3.8's seem too much for such roads, with more time spent on the brakes. The larger engine makes a difference after 90mph, probably best for track and unlimited highways.

I don't have enough seat time in the 991 vs. 991S to make that claim, I'm guessing either 911 is great, with the 7-speed 3.4 991 coupe exactly matching the 6-speed 3.4 Boxster's performance (even with extra 35 claimed hp).

[Jeff_DML]

I'm with FC & JV here. A good amount of the porsche joy comes from the smooth, revvy flat-6 engine, especially in its 2009+, 9A1 iteration. It's such a joy in how it responds and how it sounds. I don't care how much more torque the car gets, it's a fail to go turbo-four. Even the base torque-less 2.7 is a joy to rev (and the 09-12 2.9 was better in torque & gearing). It's a way to push people into gt4/spyder territory if you want your mid-engined car with a six.

On the mid-engined porsches, the 3.4's are pretty much perfect for tackling a tight mountain road, the 3.8's seem too much for such roads, with more time spent on the brakes. The larger engine makes a difference after 90mph, probably best for track and unlimited highways.

I don't have enough seat time in the 991 vs. 991S to make that claim, I'm guessing either 911 is great, with the 7-speed 3.4 991 coupe exactly matching the 6-speed 3.4 Boxster's performance (even with extra 35 claimed hp).

first mudgeon recommending a non-s?:eeps:

[bren]

first mudgeon recommending a non-s?:eeps:

It'll give him a good excuse to sell it in 6 months if nothing else. :p

edit:
I should add that I pondered a base 991 for a minute or so, after coming across one with the right options: PTV, pasm, etc.

[Jeff_DML]

It'll give him a good excuse to sell it in 6 months if nothing else. :p

edit:
I should add that I pondered a base 991 for a minute or so, after coming across one with the right options: PTV, pasm, etc.

base 911 seems ok since still decent displacement. Not sure if I could handle the 2.7l in the boxster.

[equ]

I never recommended the 2.7, but I might still take it over many turbo-4's especially in a base boxster, a car not meant for big numbers but fun.

I've had a 996, 987.1S, a 997.2, a 987.2S, a GT4 and a 981S in that order. I think I can safely say that I'm not a base engine fan on the mid's. On the 997, yes, I could have done the .2S, but .2 was plenty (actually gruntier than current 3.4 991 as it was a 3.6 and shorter geared).

[Jeff_DML]

this comparison is kind of like the standard boxster vs the S

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a29245/bmw-2-series-comparison-test/?zoomable

[rumatt]

More Camry love!

When I start the 228i, however, I'm reminded that when you buy a loaded Camry, you also get the same brilliant V-6 that powers the Lotus Evora. The 228i, by contrast, is saddled with the anodyne two-liter turbo that appears in various guises beneath the hoods of everything from the lease-special 320i to the also-a-lease-special 528i. It doesn't exactly stir the blood, as any potentially exciting sounds from the exhaust are muffled by the turbo, and what's left is a cricket chorus of injectors and accessory-drive noise.

[Jeff_DML]

More Camry love!

nice how you left out the next paragraph :D

One fast left-right corner later, though, and I realize what a fool I've been. Yes, the motor is still indifferent at best, but don't believe the hype; until the 24-valve E36 325i in the early 1990s, no small Bimmer had a truly transcendent powerplant. It was balance that made the 2002 and its successors legendary, and this 228i has it in spades.

[rumatt]

nice how you left out the next paragraph :D
I hadn't read it yet. :D

How is this like the boxster base vs S? The 228i having the best steering doesn't seem to apply... And is quite surprising.

[Josh (PA)]

That was an interesting article. Cliff Notes: M2 is awesome, 228i is endearing and won the comparsion, M235 sucks - numb, not as fast as M2 and not as nimble as 228.

Surprising was the lack of 1m love in that article. Its the first one I've read that didn't prefer the 1m character over the M2 polish

[John V]

Yes, I was surprised as well that they so strongly criticized the 1M.

[rumatt]

Yes, I was surprised as well that they so strongly criticized the 1M.
+1

[Jeff_DML]

I hadn't read it yet. :D

How is this like the boxster base vs S? The 228i having the best steering doesn't seem to apply... And is quite surprising.

not the steering but about the engine not being overpowering and less grip. So you can drive the 228 at the limits more often so ends up being more fun. Assuming the base cayman is similar compared to the S.

[lemming]

not the steering but about the engine not being overpowering and less grip. So you can drive the 228 at the limits more often so ends up being more fun. Assuming the base cayman is similar compared to the S.

the 2 series is so ungainly looking though.

blech.