e61/n54 I'm a magnet of 'what can go wrong'

[Josh (PA)]

So we have ~90k miles on the 535 wagon now after a year of ownership. We bought it in June of last year w/ ~58k and had ~73k in April... One thing ownership of it has reinforced for me is BMWs are very predictable.

- Soon after we bought it we had the HPFP go... replaced by BMW under warranty.

- In June, I found a small amount of water in the battery area. Traced it back to clogged sun roof drains. Did the clean out and was amazed how carefully the clean out had to be performed. I used compressed air first, but didn't get the blockage to clear until I went with a pipe cleaner and went from the sun roof side through the port. Both sides were clogged.

- Over the weekend the electric water failed. It made it to 90k which seems pretty good for these electric pumps. The one in my 135 on made it 33k miles before crapping out.

- While it was in there, I'm having the carbon cleaning of the intake valves done. See attached pics of the "before." I was having minor/occasional mis-fires/roughness that I expect this will cure.

I *think/hope* that is all the major N54/e61 gremlins. I'm hopeful that as long as I keep after the sunroof we should be in good shape for another couple of years. Anything else I should prepare for? The pro/con of all this is BMW issues are so well documented and so predictable that there are very little surprises. The con is these issues are also very hard to avoid (ie: prevent from requiring attention).

I will say it is an awesome car for road trips. Super comfortable, super fast, etc. It's been good at hauling crap around, and my wife likes it as a daily drive. It was also solid in the snow last winter. I wish it was a 2010 had comfort seats and comfort access, but for what we paid for it we've gotten good value for our money. If we can get 3 more years out of it I'll consider it a win...

[John V]

Interesting. I wasn't aware BMW went back to the oval intake ports.

That is pretty gunky. Makes me wonder how bad it is on my wife's Mazdaspeed3, which has almost 150k on it and is a direct injection engine as well.

Good luck.

[Josh (PA)]

Carbon cleaning complete. First impression is it seems much smoother. It pulled strongly and I noticed no mis-fires/hesitation under load. I'll need more time with it to be sure all is well now.

[JST]

So we have ~90k miles on the 535 wagon now after a year of ownership. We bought it in June of last year w/ ~58k and had ~73k in April... One thing ownership of it has reinforced for me is BMWs are very predictable.

- Soon after we bought it we had the HPFP go... replaced by BMW under warranty.

- In June, I found a small amount of water in the battery area. Traced it back to clogged sun roof drains. Did the clean out and was amazed how carefully the clean out had to be performed. I used compressed air first, but didn't get the blockage to clear until I went with a pipe cleaner and went from the sun roof side through the port. Both sides were clogged.

- Over the weekend the electric water failed. It made it to 90k which seems pretty good for these electric pumps. The one in my 135 on made it 33k miles before crapping out.

- While it was in there, I'm having the carbon cleaning of the intake valves done. See attached pics of the "before." I was having minor/occasional mis-fires/roughness that I expect this will cure.

I *think/hope* that is all the major N54/e61 gremlins. I'm hopeful that as long as I keep after the sunroof we should be in good shape for another couple of years. Anything else I should prepare for? The pro/con of all this is BMW issues are so well documented and so predictable that there are very little surprises. The con is these issues are also very hard to avoid (ie: prevent from requiring attention).

I will say it is an awesome car for road trips. Super comfortable, super fast, etc. It's been good at hauling crap around, and my wife likes it as a daily drive. It was also solid in the snow last winter. I wish it was a 2010 had comfort seats and comfort access, but for what we paid for it we've gotten good value for our money. If we can get 3 more years out of it I'll consider it a win...


Interesting. I never attempted the clean out myself, but was under the impression that to do the rear drains you had to pull the headliner. How did you get to them?

[Josh (PA)]

Interesting. I never attempted the clean out myself, but was under the impression that to do the rear drains you had to pull the headliner. How did you get to them?

I pulled the back half of the headliner down (disassembled from the rear hatch forward until I had sufficient access). If you put the sunroof in vent mode you can get to both sides of the opening from inside the headliner. It's not that far back from the rear hatch.

Part of the design flaw is there is VERY little height at the back of the sunroof channels to hold water if the drain is not completely free and clear. Even with a 3/4 open partial blockage excess water just flows down the channel and right over the maybe 1/8" high rear lip onto the headliner. If there was more of a containment area for the water at the back of the channel, it could buffer the flow through the drain hole. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a heavy rain could overwhelm the drains even when fully open.

[John V]

Carbon cleaning complete. First impression is it seems much smoother. It pulled strongly and I noticed no mis-fires/hesitation under load. I'll need more time with it to be sure all is well now.

Looks good. Did you do it yourself, and if so, how?

[Josh (PA)]

Looks good. Did you do it yourself, and if so, how?

My mechanic did it. $500. Basically take off the intake manifold cover up the engine bay as best you can and then sandblast the intake valve ports w/ walnut shell 'beads'. Vacuum out the mess and put it back together.

When I first started it after picking it up it was rough/unstable for about 30 secs. I'm guessing it was burning off the residual left overs. Since then it has been silky smooth. I drove it this AM and tried a number of different scenarios (low speed cruise, high speed, hard accel, light accel, etc.) and it was noticeably better in all situations. No hesitation, no mis-fires, less vibration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONp6gQXpyKU

Now it just needs to stay this way for a few thousand miles so i can stop worrying about what's next.

[Josh (PA)]

I pulled the back half of the headliner down (disassembled from the rear hatch forward until I had sufficient access). If you put the sunroof in vent mode you can get to both sides of the opening from inside the headliner. It's not that far back from the rear hatch.

Part of the design flaw is there is VERY little height at the back of the sunroof channels to hold water if the drain is not completely free and clear. Even with a 3/4 open partial blockage excess water just flows down the channel and right over the maybe 1/8" high rear lip onto the headliner. If there was more of a containment area for the water at the back of the channel, it could buffer the flow through the drain hole. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a heavy rain could overwhelm the drains even when fully open.

For those of us lucky enough to have Panoramic sunroofs, this is a friendly service reminder to check your drain plugs. :rtfm:

Did I mention we got 3" of rain here this week.

[wdc330i]

Damn.

[equ]

I hope not to add f10/n55 to this thread (or create a similar thread). They are getting quite complex.

[John V]

Thank you for reminding me why I no longer recommend BMWs as sound purchases.

[JST]

I enjoyed my E61. I am glad I sold my E61.

[Josh (PA)]

When I last did the clean out, I bagged each module and drilled/ rust coated 1/8" holes in the foam that holds the modules and in the floor below it. That all seemed to work and saved me (as my 18yr old daughter would say) BANK.

There were signs of a decent amount of water entry, but very little pooling and no module damage.

[wdc330i]

If there were a new Msport 540 wagon, or better yet an M5 wagon, I'd buy it.

[IndyMike]

If there were a new Msport 540 wagon, or better yet an M5 wagon, I'd buy it.
Either one would likely come with the same numb on-center issues that appear endemic to all EPAS systems so I'd just pass.

As an admitted steering snob I hate this current generation of electric steering racks with a freakin' passion. Brings back bad memories of the 01 E46 (aka The Ultimate Parking Machine).

Back on topic, with N54 and Panoramic Roof vehicles I'm not looking forward to having to deal with either issues respective to each, but I'll gladly put up with them.

I enjoy driving both immensely, because they actually feel connected to the road, regardless of the speed or what you're asking the rack to do.

With only 20k miles on the E82 and just over 40k on the E91 unless something catastrophic happens it's entirely conceivable I won't be replacing either one for the next 10 - 15 years.

Which is probably a good thing because it's time to BANK (thanks Josh :) )for early retirement, although it will likely render me the most boring man on any car chat board.

[Josh (PA)]

Of course this comes out a few days after I sell the wagon:

BMW will pay up to $477.7 million to settle a class action lawsuit filed by BMW 5-Series owners due to water damage issues.

The settlement, filed in U.S. District Court in New York last week, covers owners of 2004-2010 E60 BMW 5-Series models. It says that electronic components in the spare tire well could be damaged by clogged sunroof drainage tubes or by other means.

The settlement covers approximately 318,000 vehicles and permits owners to receive up to $1,500 in compensation for previous repairs. Additionally, BMW dealerships across the United States will affix warning labels to affected 5-Series models instructing owners not to spill liquids in the trunk.

Based off warranty claims, complaints and technical service bulletins filed with the U.S. National Highway Traffic Administration, owners say that BMW was aware of the issues as early as 2004. BMW denies this, Reuters reports.

Although the settlement still needs to be approved by U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest, BMW will also pay around $1.8 million to cover all the legal expenses of the suing owners.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/02/bmw-agrees-to-478-million-settlement.html

[JST]

Of course this comes out a few days after I sell the wagon:

BMW will pay up to $477.7 million to settle a class action lawsuit filed by BMW 5-Series owners due to water damage issues.

The settlement, filed in U.S. District Court in New York last week, covers owners of 2004-2010 E60 BMW 5-Series models. It says that electronic components in the spare tire well could be damaged by clogged sunroof drainage tubes or by other means.

The settlement covers approximately 318,000 vehicles and permits owners to receive up to $1,500 in compensation for previous repairs. Additionally, BMW dealerships across the United States will affix warning labels to affected 5-Series models instructing owners not to spill liquids in the trunk.

Based off warranty claims, complaints and technical service bulletins filed with the U.S. National Highway Traffic Administration, owners say that BMW was aware of the issues as early as 2004. BMW denies this, Reuters reports.

Although the settlement still needs to be approved by U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest, BMW will also pay around $1.8 million to cover all the legal expenses of the suing owners.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/02/bmw-agrees-to-478-million-settlement.html

Thanks for posting. I think I spent $1000 on the new computer. Would be nice to get it back. Will have to check the class definition to see if I'm covered.

[Josh (PA)]

Thanks for posting. I think I spent $1000 on the new computer. Would be nice to get it back. Will have to check the class definition to see if I'm covered.

I had to buy a few modules myself, I'm sure I don't have the receipts for them anymore. I figured there were enough of us on here who had e60 / e61s at some point that someone would find it useful.

[JST]

I had to buy a few modules myself, I'm sure I don't have the receipts for them anymore. I figured there were enough of us on here who had e60 / e61s at some point that someone would find it useful.

The class is:

“[A ]llpersonsorentitiesinthe UnitedStatesandPuerto R ico w ho currently
ow norlease ,orpreviously ow nedorleased,amodely ear2 0 0 4 to 2 0 1 0 U.S.specificationB M W
5 Series(E 6 0 andE 6 1 ) vehicle” (“SettlementC lass”).(KellerD ecl.,Ex .1 (Settlement
A gre ement) §I.FF.)6

The settlement would provide:

The Settlementalso providesforanup to $1,500 reimbursementforeligible out-ofpocketex
pensesincurredataB M W C enterorthird-party repairshop forre location,repair,or
replacementof the R D C ,PD C ,M PM ,TC U,L O G IC -7 ,andSD A R Smodulesdue to w ater
intrusion.Inde ed,if every SettlementC lassM emberw ere to claim max imum available
monetary relie f,the overallvalue of the Settlement’smonetary componentalone is$477,729,000
($ 1 ,5 0 0 x 31 8 ,48 6 C lassVehicles).SettlementC lassM embersdo notne edto submitaC laim
Form8 to receive inspection,relocation,andrepairorreplacementservic es.How ever,aC laim
Form isrequiredto requestreimbursement foreligible out-of-pocketex penses.The service
campaignandreimbursementprogram are describedatsectionIII,subsectionsA -B of the
SettlementA gre ement.
C laimsmustbe supportedw ith adequate documentationthat: identifiesthe Vehicle
IdentificationN umber(“VIN ”);consistsof repairordersorinvoicesdescribingthe repair,cause
of failure ,partsused,labortime andcosts,andmileage atthe time of repair;andshow sproof of
pay mentforthe repair.(SettlementA gre ement§III.B .2 .) SettlementC lassM emberscan
submittheirclaimsby U.S.M ailorthrough the settlementw ebsite.(Id. §IV.A .3.)


The case is Catalano v. BMW NA in the SDNY, 1:15-cv-04889.

[Plaz]

The class is:

“[A ]llpersonsorentitiesinthe UnitedStatesandPuerto R ico w ho currently
ow norlease ,orpreviously ow nedorleased,amodely ear2 0 0 4 to 2 0 1 0 U.S.specificationB M W
5 Series(E 6 0 andE 6 1 ) vehicle” (“SettlementC lass”).(KellerD ecl.,Ex .1 (Settlement
A gre ement) §I.FF.)6

The settlement would provide:

The Settlementalso providesforanup to $1,500 reimbursementforeligible out-ofpocketex
pensesincurredataB M W C enterorthird-party repairshop forre location,repair,or
replacementof the R D C ,PD C ,M PM ,TC U,L O G IC -7 ,andSD A R Smodulesdue to w ater
intrusion.Inde ed,if every SettlementC lassM emberw ere to claim max imum available
monetary relie f,the overallvalue of the Settlement’smonetary componentalone is$477,729,000
($ 1 ,5 0 0 x 31 8 ,48 6 C lassVehicles).SettlementC lassM embersdo notne edto submitaC laim
Form8 to receive inspection,relocation,andrepairorreplacementservic es.How ever,aC laim
Form isrequiredto requestreimbursement foreligible out-of-pocketex penses.The service
campaignandreimbursementprogram are describedatsectionIII,subsectionsA -B of the
SettlementA gre ement.
C laimsmustbe supportedw ith adequate documentationthat: identifiesthe Vehicle
IdentificationN umber(“VIN ”);consistsof repairordersorinvoicesdescribingthe repair,cause
of failure ,partsused,labortime andcosts,andmileage atthe time of repair;andshow sproof of
pay mentforthe repair.(SettlementA gre ement§III.B .2 .) SettlementC lassM emberscan
submittheirclaimsby U.S.M ailorthrough the settlementw ebsite.(Id. §IV.A .3.)


The case is Catalano v. BMW NA in the SDNY, 1:15-cv-04889.

Man, I hate that random space deletion/insertion guideline specified in the ALWD Citation Manual.

[JST]

Man, I hate that random space deletion/insertion guideline specified in the ALWD Citation Manual.

Imagine trying to write that way.

[Plaz]

Imagine trying to write that way.

I'tsincomprehensible .

[Terri Kennedy]

Thanks for posting. I think I spent $1000 on the new computer. Would be nice to get it back. Will have to check the class definition to see if I'm covered.
I don't know why the lawyers didn't insist that BMW pro-actively notify the owners of all included cars which were repaired out-of-warranty at a BMW dealership, since their records include the VINs and the specific defect codes for replacing any of the modules, applying the warning sticker, etc.

That would reduce the number of owners who needed to search for records to those who had the module(s) replaced at an independent service shop, or who purchased the module(s) at the parts counter themselves.

At the 2004 NYIAS, I saw (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=332979&postcount=32) a pre-production 6er with the "electronics in spare tire well" and thought it was a bad idea even then:

Did they really regress that much on the E6x?

I suppose it is possible - I once poked around a bit in a pre-production 6er and the spare tire well in the trunk had a styrofoam insert with the usual massive BMW fuse box and other stuff in there. No idea if that was just pre-production or if it carried over into series production, though.

And it isn't like BMW never had experiences with clogged sunroof drains before. :irate:

[Josh (PA)]

So we have ~90k miles on the 535 wagon now after a year of ownership. We bought it in June of last year w/ ~58k and had ~73k in April... One thing ownership of it has reinforced for me is BMWs are very predictable.

- Soon after we bought it we had the HPFP go... replaced by BMW under warranty.

- In June, I found a small amount of water in the battery area. Traced it back to clogged sun roof drains. Did the clean out and was amazed how carefully the clean out had to be performed. I used compressed air first, but didn't get the blockage to clear until I went with a pipe cleaner and went from the sun roof side through the port. Both sides were clogged.

- Over the weekend the electric water failed. It made it to 90k which seems pretty good for these electric pumps. The one in my 135 on made it 33k miles before crapping out.

- While it was in there, I'm having the carbon cleaning of the intake valves done. See attached pics of the "before." I was having minor/occasional mis-fires/roughness that I expect this will cure.

I *think/hope* that is all the major N54/e61 gremlins. I'm hopeful that as long as I keep after the sunroof we should be in good shape for another couple of years. Anything else I should prepare for? The pro/con of all this is BMW issues are so well documented and so predictable that there are very little surprises. The con is these issues are also very hard to avoid (ie: prevent from requiring attention).

I will say it is an awesome car for road trips. Super comfortable, super fast, etc. It's been good at hauling crap around, and my wife likes it as a daily drive. It was also solid in the snow last winter. I wish it was a 2010 had comfort seats and comfort access, but for what we paid for it we've gotten good value for our money. If we can get 3 more years out of it I'll consider it a win...
Ugh, so much for my dream of BMW paying for a broken water pump. The lawsuit was for 84k or below.

Also, this place has sooo much history.