Justifying the cost of a "nice" car. [Archive]

08-09-2007, 11:01 AM

I know this is a very broad discussion, but am I the only one that struggles with "justifying" the cost of a nice car? What about when it's a car you don't need at all?:?

I know some/most of us here are fortunate enough to draw the line on how much to spend on a car based on more than not being able to afford to pay utility bills.

I say all this because I had a sprained left ankle and couldn't drive the ZHP for over a week (ehem, again, nice to have a sluhie in the garage), and driving it again it really just feels awesome. This despite having driven a pretty sporty, fast wagon. At the same time, I helped my brother pick/buy a 2000 Jeep Cherokee for $5k (97K miles - cool truck). Now I almost feel guilty just having my '03 ZHP.:rolleyes:

As I consider my next car, I keep wondering on what seems right to spend on it. I am pretty sure I'll pick up a car like my brother's. It will get me around town and to and from work with no problems for $5K. We really would not need anyhing else beyond that car and the V70R. But then I would go insane without having a MT car that is fun to drive from time to time.

But do I get a new $60K Boxster? How about a CPO '05 base 987 for $35K? How about a used '03 986S for 25K? Why not a used miata for 15K or less?

The whole idea behind my 5 year plan was to wait until some major financial milestones were completed before I replaced a perfectly good, fun car with a more expensive, less practical, more fun car. We are financially on track to achieve all those milestones, I am now just wondering when it's "ok" to spend X on a car instead of say, investing the money.

Perhaps the guilt-free metric should be to spend no more on your fun car than you pay in federal taxes or something goofy like that.

Just pondering aloud.

Sharp11

08-09-2007, 11:14 AM

Nick M3

08-09-2007, 11:16 AM

When you net out the cost of swtching from your ZHP to a "cheaper" car, you won't save very much. The E46 makes an excellent beater. Keep it.

08-09-2007, 11:22 AM

Some random thoughts...

My thoughts on what I should spend on a car changes with each new purchase. I guess that I kind of waffle like that. For me, it's less of "how much can I really afford?", and more of "yeah, I really want that car, and it fits within what I'd feel comfortable spending".

When I bought the ZHP in 2003, that was really pushing the limits of what I felt comfortable with, even though the money outlay wasn't a major concern. I was saying to myself, is this $42,000 car really worth twice as much as a $20,000 [something]? At the time, I was into BMWs, and the biggest concern was how soon I could take delivery. So i just did it.

I've always wanted an M3, but jumping up into the upper 40's/low 50's category has always been a bit scary to me. Once you get past a certain dollar amount, where do you stop?

Going forward, I started to spend less and less on cars, and found that they're still at least as much fun as that BMW. The S2000 was waaaay more fun, and the Si is right up there with the Bimmer too. Yeah, my $20K Honda is as much fun to drive as that $42K BMW. Maybe more, because I know that I can beat the daylights out of it, and it 1) probably won't break, and 2) gets 30+ MPG regardless, and 3) Will hold its value ridiculously well.

08-09-2007, 11:24 AM

It's impossible for us to know what's right for you.

My take is, as car enthusiasts, most of us here really enjoy our cars. As long as it doesn't break the household bank and you're not being irresponsible with the money (putting off home repairs, raiding the kid's college fund etc), you should buy the car you want and can afford.

Life is short, you'll never have all the cars you want anyway, so enjoy the ones you can get.

Ed

Hell, I may just order a GT3 then. Thanks Ed!!!:D

;)

All important goals like retirement, education, and saving a decent chunk of money every year have been/will be taken care of before I even consider a car. Part of the milestones to be met are doing all the significant renovation work on the house like the AC, filling-in the pool, heater, roof, Kitchen, floors (refinishing), basement, bathroom, etc will be done first (which we have done/will do in cash since I refuse to borrow money at more than 6%).

ZBB

08-09-2007, 11:27 AM

My take is, as car enthusiasts, most of us here really enjoy our cars. As long as it doesn't break the household bank and you're not being irresponsible with the money (putting off home repairs, raiding the kid's college fund etc), you should buy the car you want and can afford.

That's a great way to summarize it.

As for me, I just have a mental block of paying for a car that costs much more than ~$40k or a car payment over $600 a month. I could afford a more expensive car or a higher payment -- but just don't want to.

There are a lot of decent cars between $30-$40k. There are some great cars between $40-$55/$60k. For what I need at this point in my life, I have a hard time justifying a car that is much over $40k...

clyde

08-09-2007, 11:44 AM

Part of the milestones to be met are doing all the significant renovation work on the house like the AC, filling-in the pool, heater, roof, Kitchen, floors (refinishing), basement, bathroom, etc will be done first

And like a "nice" car, anything you do beyond the bare minimum to make your home habitable, those are also discretionary items. You've just placed a higher priority on those.

08-09-2007, 11:49 AM

That's a great way to summarize it.

As for me, I just have a mental block of paying for a car that costs much more than ~$40k or a car payment over $600 a month. I could afford a more expensive car or a higher payment -- but just don't want to.

There are a lot of decent cars between $30-$40k. There are some great cars between $40-$55/$60k. For what I need at this point in my life, I have a hard time justifying a car that is much over $40k...

I am a bit like that. I was probably overly aggressive when I bought the ZHP. But that car was ~38K out the door, and my payment was $600. So if I did that back then, it's silly to not be ok with it now. The V70R is a $680 payment, but that is just because I wanted to free up cash for home improvements. The V70R was also $38K.

But we needed the V70R. And if I felt I needed a nice, high-end sedan, I would not balk at buying a new 335i or S4. OTOH, the car in question would be mostly a toy.

undefined

08-09-2007, 11:52 AM

But we needed the V70R. And if I felt I needed a nice, high-end sedan, I would not balk at buying a new 335i or S4. OTOH, the car in question would be mostly a toy.

you didn't need a volvo v70r

08-09-2007, 11:53 AM

And like a "nice" car, anything you do beyond the bare minimum to make your home habitable, those are also discretionary items. You've just placed a higher priority on those.

Would youmind calling my wife and telling her that?

She loves to sweep any home improvements under the (IMO, weak) "it's an investment" argument. Now, I don't disagree with giving home improvements the priority. I can't stand my kitchen, I love my new AC, I can't wait to have a nice, habitable basement, etc. But I admit her biased opinion does weigh in my mind when trying to figure out the budget for the next car.

08-09-2007, 11:54 AM

you didn't need a volvo v70r

Correct. I didn't phrase that right. We needed a family vehicle, and the V70R was within a reasonable range for us.

08-09-2007, 12:03 PM

When you net out the cost of swtching from your ZHP to a "cheaper" car, you won't save very much. The E46 makes an excellent beater. Keep it.

I would love to keep it, but I could use a car with good ground clearance towards which I can have an "I don't give a shit about it" attitide.

If I can clear 10-15K on the swap, then even better. But it will be hard to let go of such a nice car.

Optimus Prime

08-09-2007, 12:45 PM

My wife and I just had this discussion the other day. After driving my brother's $9k Aveo, I started wondering if the BMW was really "worth" the extra $30k+. But then the argument would logically follow, is the "nice" food we eat "worth" the extra $$ over hamburger helper? Is the HD big screen "worth" more than the alternative? Is the money spent on AC, "worth" the money...

It comes down to personal balance. Sometimes, I think we'd be happier living off grid and none of the "frills". Sometimes, I don't think I could live without the frills.

bren

08-09-2007, 12:51 PM

If I can clear 10-15K on the swap
SOLD! When can I come pick it up?

clyde

08-09-2007, 12:52 PM

Would youmind calling my wife and telling her that?

Number?

She loves to sweep any home improvements under the (IMO, weak) "it's an investment" argument. Now, I don't disagree with giving home improvements the priority. I can't stand my kitchen, I love my new AC, I can't wait to have a nice, habitable basement, etc. But I admit her biased opinion does weigh in my mind when trying to figure out the budget for the next car.

If you aren't planning on selling the house anytime soon, it's not an investment at all. It's an expense. If you're going to be out in 5 years, it will probably get you more for the house than if you didn't spend the money, but what's the return? Are you going to get 50% back? 60%? 20%? You're never going to be able to completely quantify it since there are so many other variables.

If you don't plan on selling for 10 years, what you spend now will see even smaller returns as the "updates" become older. Stay 20 years, and most of it will need to be done again as it will be so old that anyone moving in will want to redo it just as much as if it were original.

08-09-2007, 01:00 PM

Number?

If you aren't planning on selling the house anytime soon, it's not an investment at all. It's an expense. If you're going to be out in 5 years, it will probably get you more for the house than if you didn't spend the money, but what's the return? Are you going to get 50% back? 60%? 20%? You're never going to be able to completely quantify it since there are so many other variables.

If you don't plan on selling for 10 years, what you spend now will see even smaller returns as the "updates" become older. Stay 20 years, and most of it will need to be done again as it will be so old that anyone moving in will want to redo it just as much as if it were original.

What can I say? I completely agree and have told her just that.

08-09-2007, 01:02 PM

SOLD! When can I come pick it up?

"Swap."

Delta from the sale of the ZHP (NEXT YEAR) and the purchase of the "beater car" being 10-15K. Since I don't know how much I will spend on the replacement...

;)

killerdeck

08-09-2007, 01:32 PM

FC, Im in the same camp. I work from home and have only 22K miles on my Feb 04 built ZHP. Most of these miles (13K or so) were put on in the first year when I still worked 50 miles round trip from my house. I have decided that I am going to keep the ZHP for the long run and not let anything else tempt me. My family routinely keeps its cars for at least 12-15 years. Only when the repairs start amounting to more than the car is worth do I plan on selling sooner. Maybe I should have bought a CPO ZHP when I was originally looking to buy to save some money, but this is the car for me for 12+ years, I am happy with getting it new and with exactly what I wanted. My wife and I decided having a nicer home and travelling were more important.

equ

08-09-2007, 02:20 PM

When you net out the cost of swtching from your ZHP to a "cheaper" car, you won't save very much. The E46 makes an excellent beater. Keep it.

+100000 as long as you enjoy it as you just mentioned

Sharp11

08-09-2007, 02:25 PM

Keep in mind guys, most cars are a losing proposition, so my feeling is, since you lose money on them anyway, you should at least enjoy the things.

Having said that, I could never enjoy having a car I'd have to stretch my finances to own - it feels good to buy well within your comfort range and drive it like you really own it :)

I also don't see the point, these days, of buying new (unless you lease). There are so many great cars available through many outlets, both CPO and not, some at fire sale prices, I can't remember a better time to buy "used". My zhp had 2500 miles on it, was less than a year old and cost the original owner a whopping 8 grand in depreciation.

Ed

John V

08-09-2007, 02:32 PM

08-09-2007, 02:36 PM

To whom are you trying to justify the cost of a nice car? :dunno

I'm quickly starting to realize that I enjoy my nice cars when I don't drive them all the time. I've been commuting to work in the Altima lately, and when I take the Boxster instead, it feels like a damned race car.

However, I wouldn't be able to go so far as to drive an old Jeep as my daily driver and I certainly wouldn't ditch my nice car for one. The day-to-day mileage and the crappy handling wouldn't work out for me.

I guess I'm trying to justify it to myself first, and then maybe to my wife.:dunno:

I've said many times that I'm a big fan of the "crappy car brings out the greatnessof nicer car" idea. As I said in the OP, I had to drive the V70R for ~10 days. After that, the ZHP felt incredible (kudos to BMW for such a well-sorted suspension).

Finally, my commute is laughably short, so I don't mind a crappy commuter. But the old jeep idea ONLY works if I have a really nice car to offset it.

wdc330i

08-09-2007, 02:59 PM

I guess I'm trying to justify it to myself first, and then maybe to my wife.:dunno:

I've said many times that I'm a big fan of the "crappy car brings out the greatnessof nicer car" idea. As I said in the OP, I had to drive the V70R for ~10 days. After that, the ZHP felt incredible (kudos to BMW for such a well-sorted suspension).

Finally, my commute is laughably short, so I don't mind a crappy commuter. But the old jeep idea ONLY works if I have a really nice car to offset it.

I suspect, once you have your baby, you won't feel comfortable having just one car that provides a measure of safety for him. You may want to choose your ZHP over a crappy old Jeep simply for that reason.

08-09-2007, 03:12 PM

I suspect, once you have your baby, you won't feel comfortable having just one car that provides a measure of safety for him. You may want to choose your ZHP over a crappy old Jeep simply for that reason.

Over the course of the summer I got a really big itch and felt perhaps I should sell the ZHP now and buy a CPO '05 base 987 for mid-30K's. But as you say, the baby is a big factor. The baby can change everything, so I'm not touching anything for another year until we see what the baby requires us to do. I may well skip the whole jeep idea and keep the zhp.:dunno:

I suppose I could still add a really crappy jeep for $2K. But that would be a lot of cars that would be used very little.

OT: I installed the infant car seat. Piece of cake. I need to buy a 2nd base this (tax free!) weekend along with a boat-load of other baby stuff.

Rob

08-09-2007, 03:17 PM

wdc330i

08-09-2007, 03:52 PM

Fwiw, we never got around to buying a second base and never really felt the lack. The base attaches with LATCH, right? Piece of cake to move - takes like 2 minutes start to finish. Although I suppose you do have to move it and some people would find that inconvenient.

We found it very convenient having two infant seat bases for the SnugRide. And the extra base is pretty cheap. But, true, the car seats with latch (we have two Britax models) are a breeze to swap.

08-09-2007, 03:58 PM

We found it very convenient having two infant seat bases for the SnugRide. And the extra base is pretty cheap. But, true, the car seats with latch (we have two Britax models) are a breeze to swap.

We have a snugride.

But now that I think about it, mom will stay home until baby is ~4 m.o., so the seat in the V70R may be enough since at that point he may be moving on to convertible seats, no?

When mom goes back to work at that time, I will be driving him with either car to daycare, etc. Until then, one car seat is enough ...I think.:dunno:

wdc330i

08-09-2007, 04:05 PM

We have a snugride.

But now that I think about it, mom will stay home until baby is ~4 m.o., so the seat in the V70R may be enough since at that point he may be moving on to convertible seats, no?

When mom goes back to work at that time, I will be driving him with either car to daycare, etc. Until then, one car seat is enough ...I think.:dunno:

It's hard to remember, but I think our son (who's at the top of the charts for height) didn't outgrow the SnugRide until just under 6 months.

BTW, one accessory I really recommend with the SnugRide is the snap-in stroller that goes with it. With two dogs, we found ourselves using it ALL the time INSIDE the house to keep him safely out of dog range. Perfect for the dinner prep hour, for instance. And of course, it was useful out in the world, too.

08-09-2007, 04:20 PM

It's hard to remember, but I think our son (who's at the top of the charts for height) didn't outgrow the SnugRide until just under 6 months.

BTW, one accessory I really recommend with the SnugRide is the snap-in stroller that goes with it. With two dogs, we found ourselves using it ALL the time INSIDE the house to keep him safely out of dog range. Perfect for the dinner prep hour, for instance. And of course, it was useful out in the world, too.

Never heard of it. I'll look it up. Thanks.

Well, the base is cheap enough at $40, that if we need it even for just a couple of months, we'll just get it. We're hoping to use this stuff all over again in a couple of years anyway.

EDIT: Found it. This (http://www.gracobaby.com/catalog/product.aspx?modelNumber=6001BCL1), right? We are already going to buy the Bugaboo adapter for the snugride. And, FWIW, no stroller would stop my dog if he wanted to get to the baby. He would put his paws on the stroller and easily would be within licking reach.

wdc330i

08-09-2007, 04:22 PM

We're hoping to use this stuff all over again in a coupel of years anyway.

Yep, that's exactly how we justified a lot of purchases for baby No. 1!

ZBB

08-09-2007, 04:37 PM

We found it very convenient having two infant seat bases for the SnugRide. And the extra base is pretty cheap. But, true, the car seats with latch (we have two Britax models) are a breeze to swap.

We have the Peg Perego infant seat with 2 bases...

The 2nd base really comes in helpful -- often times, my wife drops our daughter off at day care, and I pick her up. We leave the car seat at day care. If we also had to swap the base, it would get annoying fast... It is a piece of cake to swap the base, but I've only ever removed the base from my car twice in the last 6 months (once to take it on a trip, second to put in my Mom's car). The main base just stays in my wife's car...

But we'll be getting a convertible seat soon... our daughter just had her 6 month check up... she's at 90th percentile for hight -- 27 inches already! The Peg Perego fits up to 30 inches -- so we'll need to get the new seat in another month or so...

undefined

08-09-2007, 04:43 PM

08-09-2007, 04:48 PM

Thanks guys. Maybe I will just buy the second base.:)

That's a hijacked thread if I ever saw one.:ack:

...Wait, is it hijacking if one started the thread?:?

Rob

08-09-2007, 04:58 PM

I can see that a drop off/pick up situation would be a great time to have two bases. I suppose the second base becomes more useable the more often you actually want to use the second car. Every day is a no-brainer.

As far as sometimes taking my car instead of her car, it wasn't a big deal for us to move the base. Plus, the Peg Perego base was something like $60 and that seemed like a lot for the amount of time we would actually use it.

With a second one coming, we might just get a second base to avoid having to worry about it. I think getting two kids in the car is going to be exponentially more difficult for a few years then getting one kid in was.

lupinsea

08-09-2007, 05:32 PM

I was going to make a comment about cars. . . but now that y'all are discussing baby car seats I feel I'm out of my league.

lemming

08-09-2007, 05:51 PM

i used to think it was all related to how much fun you're having when you're driving the car......but then life got in the way and i never drove my "fun" car. and i even had a DD that was "fun" and never drove the wheels off of that.

so, like most have opined, it's such a personal decision.

one thing i've learned, though, is that unless you're really going to drive the thing and really make time to enjoy it, it's not worth the added moneys beyond 50k USD. as cars, for the most part, are depreciating assets, all you're doing is finding a sinkhole to pour the ashes of money that's been burned into it.

everything is relative, though.

08-09-2007, 05:52 PM

I was going to make a comment about cars. . . but now that y'all are discussing baby car seats I feel I'm out of my league.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

JST

08-09-2007, 06:01 PM

Never heard of it. I'll look it up. Thanks.

Well, the base is cheap enough at $40, that if we need it even for just a couple of months, we'll just get it. We're hoping to use this stuff all over again in a couple of years anyway.

EDIT: Found it. This (http://www.gracobaby.com/catalog/product.aspx?modelNumber=6001BCL1), right? We are already going to buy the Bugaboo adapter for the snugride. And, FWIW, no stroller would stop my dog if he wanted to get to the baby. He would put his paws on the stroller and easily would be within licking reach.

Get this (in addition to your Bug):

http://www.combistrollers.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=540

It folds up extremely small, is very light, is easy to open, and accepts a Snugride. Also, it is less than 10 percent of the price of the Bug. This thing was very useful for short trips to the store/mall/whatever where we didn't feel like folding and unfolding our main stroller. It's also very useful for traveling by plane.

As for two bases v. not two bases, it depends. I think we transported the baby less than 5 times in my car while we were using the bases, so it would have been easy enough to move the base from the Audi. Now, though, she rides in both the BMW and the Audi every day, making two seats absolutely critical.

Personally, the ISOFIX/LATCH connectors are still a big enough PITA that I would just suck it up and get another $40 base.

08-09-2007, 09:03 PM

Well, that's two people bringing it up. I'll have to check it out.

lemming

08-09-2007, 10:39 PM

people and their obsession with progeny.

:-D

blech.

08-09-2007, 11:07 PM

people and their obsession with progeny.

:-D

blech.

Hey, quit bitching. You wouldn't be here if your parents thought the way you do.:mad2:

Besides, you need our kids to keep the economy running a couple of decades from now.

Sharp11

08-09-2007, 11:23 PM

Besides, you need our kids to keep the economy running a couple of decades from now.

Yep, someone's going to have to pay for the republicans' excesses.

Ed

rumatt

08-09-2007, 11:32 PM

I can't. That's why I don't own one. :(

08-09-2007, 11:36 PM

I can't. That's why I don't own one. :(

You mean kids?

lemming

08-09-2007, 11:36 PM

I can't. That's why I don't own one. :(

...and being a fiscal conservative is bad why?

rumatt

08-09-2007, 11:53 PM

You mean kids?

No, cars. (you "own" kids? :eeps: )

...and being a fiscal conservative is bad why?

Because I want a car? :D

08-10-2007, 09:43 AM

No, cars. (you "own" kids? :eeps: )

Hence my confusion. Sorry, the previous posts were about kids.

bren

08-10-2007, 10:13 AM

Yep, someone's going to have to pay for the republicans' excesses.

Ed

:scratch:

clyde

08-10-2007, 10:33 AM

:scratch:
It's like this: In the world of Ed, if it weren't for the republicans, magic robots would be doing all the work for free.

rumatt

08-10-2007, 10:56 AM

It's like this: In the world of Ed, if it weren't for the republicans, magic robots would be doing all the work for free.

A robot is vacuuming my kitchen as we speak, despite the existence of republicans.

Her name is Roomba.

kognito

08-10-2007, 11:09 AM

It's like this: In the world of Ed, if it weren't for the republicans, magic robots would be doing all the work for free.

Where is my flying car, and jetpack!!!:eeps: :eeps: :lol:

Ed, Just joking

Sharp11

08-10-2007, 11:38 AM

A robot is vacuuming my kitchen as we speak, despite the existence of republicans.

Her name is Roomba.

Hah, my uncle has one of those robot vacuum cleaners - it works pretty well - after it finishes up, it backs itself into its charger.

Might've been invented by a republican, can't say for sure :lol:

Ed

wdc330i

08-10-2007, 03:04 PM