I Drove a new 228i on Saturday

[John V]

I was disappointed.

I guess I'm beyond the point of being old and crotchety, because what has happened to "base" BMWs? It used to be that the entry-level stuff still had all the inherent goodness of the more expensive ones. This one really missed the mark for me.

It had the 8-speed automatic, which I was actually excited to try out. All the press on this transmission has been quite positive. I was not impressed. This car had an epic level of disconnectedness. A very laggy throttle coupled to a transmission that is loathe to downshift quickly driven by an engine that possesses a solid second of turbo lag before making quite decent power makes for a car that is very difficult to drive smoothly and quickly. Forget using the throttle as a "steering pedal" in this car. It can't really be done. It's readily apparent that the computers are contemplating your inputs, deciding if what you've asked for is prudent, then applies them... when it can be bothered to. Want to accelerate? Or turn? Plan ahead.

Rolling on 205 (!) section-width Michelin run-flat tires that were obviously designed to minimize rolling resistance didn't help. Mid-corner grip is nonexistent. Somehow, body roll was still prodigious. How is this possible? Weight, I'm guessing. This is a big car. It sits high on its springs, and is very long and ponderous feeling behind the wheel. The steering wheel accurately controls the direction of the front end, but offers no feedback as to what the tires and suspension are doing. Only the listing horizon and squeal of over-matched rubber give clues as to what's going on.

Someone (Josh?) called BMWs the "ultimate compromise machine" some time ago. Even the sportiest of them aren't really sports cars ('cept the Z4) but that's OK - they tend to retain some of the qualities of sports cars while having room for four people. This car got the second part right, but there isn't a sporting bone in its body.

[bren]

Welcome to the new BMW. I'm starting to think it's a ploy to force you into buying into their exorbitant option packages and accessories. Software to fix that throttle lag alone would be worth pretty much any cost.

Did you compare to anything else? I know we found when shopping SUV's that there was still a pretty huge difference to the next nearest competitor.

[John V]

Nothing comparable from a marketing standpoint. Some Subarus, some Mazdas, and an older BMW (E46, stock). All of which were better from a "feel" and responsiveness standpoint.

[Sharp11]

Even the latest Z4 isn't a sports car any longer, they're all designed for the new demographic - and it's a marketing plan that's paying off for BMW.

I suspect the M series version of the 2 series is likely all that's left, but the reality is, people who enjoy true "sports" cars in the old tradition need to buy old cars, or take a look at the Mazda Miata, both old and new.

[clyde]

Someone (Josh?) called BMWs the "ultimate compromise machine" some time ago.

It was me. In the pre-ZHP E46 days.

[JST]

Nothing comparable from a marketing standpoint. Some Subarus, some Mazdas, and an older BMW (E46, stock). All of which were better from a "feel" and responsiveness standpoint.

The Road and Track comparo of the 2 series to the Mustang and the FR-S was pretty eye-opening.

I'd want to hold off on buying something in this segment until I could drive a Camaro, but then again, if the chance of me buying a Mustang is close to nil, the chance of me buying a Camaro ever, under any circumstances, is less than zero.

[dan]

It was me. In the pre-ZHP E46 days.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215983&postcount=42

[Nick M3]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215983&postcount=42

lol

[Biggins]

Which trimline did you drive?

I got to autocross/skidpad an M-Sport/track package last year at a Street Survival school and really liked everything except the tires. I felt like it would be a valid replacement for my FR-S, there are probably other cars I'd have listed higher than the 228i M-Sport.

I like the Turner Motorsport 228i project car:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-project-f22-228i.aspx

[bren]

I like the Turner Motorsport 228i project car:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-project-f22-228i.aspx

As BMWs progressively become larger year after year and the new 3-series suddenly becomes the new 5 series and the 5 becomes the new 7 and the 7…well you get it. In a world where the automotive industry strives for more power, more gadgets, more technology and more features, there still remains the small contingent of BMW purists clinging to their 10 year old or 15 year old E46 or E36 3-series in hopes that BMW will again produce a car less concerned with gadgets and features and more about the sheer driving pleasure.

Now enters the F22 2-series, BMWs latest and best attempt to bring that E36 and E46 contingent back into the fold as the "little brother" to the 3 and 4-series. Dimensionally, the new 2-series is just slightly larger than E46 3-series coupes, available with similar power too. Both the new 228i and M235 measure in with a 105.9 inch wheelbase and a 175.9” length, almost identical to that of the E46 3-series. Unfortunately, even with near identical dimensions the 2-series still weights in at about 200 lbs heavier depending on drive line and options.

Right, hmm okay, and wait, what?!

[John V]

Heh.

Well I've been driving around in this '04 330Ci for the past few months and all is not rosy with it either. It opened my eyes to just how much of a complete package the ZHP was. From the suspension tuning to the shifter to the exhaust it tweaked many knobs in the right direction to bring the whole car into balance.

I bet the 2 series would be a great freeway cruiser. It's quiet and the 8-speed auto is probably fantastic when not being asked to do anything sporting. But for me, the first time I bent it into a corner I'd wonder why I spent the money buying a BMW over, say, an Accord. Because it's an appliance. And if I'm going to drive an appliance, it might as well be inexpensive and have bulletproof reliability.

[Josh (PA)]

The electric assist steering takes a lot out of the BMW'ness. The manual transmission in the f22 is excellent. You can get the suspension firmed up nicely and the tires fixed with the M-sport package. Unfortunately, without any communication through the chassis and steering wheel, it just doesn't deliver any driving engagement. It is really unfortunate and why I don't hold out much hope for the M2. I can't imagine how they are going to fix the numbness. I'm sure the performance numbers will be super, but the whole experience won't be any different than simulating it on a Play Station in Gran Turismo.

[John V]

One of the things that amused me a bit was before we drove off, the owner stopped me so he could go through the settings and "firm up" the chassis. On the car's color display it let me know that DSC was off and that the "sport chassis settings" were enabled. :lol:

BMW seems to have no problem selling cars so I'm not worried for their future as a company. I just see my desires moving further and further away from their offerings.

[ZBB]

You guys realize that there are a few of us here that haven't bought a BMW product in years, right?

Once you move on, you will realize things are going to be OK. Get an Audi, Porsche or Tesla next...

[John V]

There was still more road feedback than in the Tesla :eeps:

Already moved on and bought the Porsche :) Just a bit amused what BMW has become.

[ZBB]

There was still more road feedback than in the Tesla :eeps:


The Tesla isn't that numb... but then again, I did trade an E39 for a Cadillac :lol:

[clyde]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215983&postcount=42

When I saw your post with a link, I half expected to be proved wrong. :lol:

[JST]

I am disappointed that it wasn't a Rick roll.

[equ]

I'm not surprised. Haven't driven a 2er but that's the general trend of bmw's. That said, MT + ZSP + (more packages than I know how to keep track, e.g. DHP, dynamic handling etc) make a world of difference in modern bmw's, I've driven several versions of the current 3er and 5er and these details matter - more so than the settings on the specific car. Still, none of them have much steering or chassis feel.

They have figured out to de-content the cars, performance or otherwise to get the people who care to pay more.

[Jeff_DML]

I'm not surprised. Haven't driven a 2er but that's the general trend of bmw's. That said, MT + ZSP + (more packages than I know how to keep track, e.g. DHP, dynamic handling etc) make a world of difference in modern bmw's, I've driven several versions of the current 3er and 5er and these details matter - more so than the settings on the specific car. Still, none of them have much steering or chassis feel.

They have figured out to de-content the cars, performance or otherwise to get the people who care to pay more.

yep I test drove a 228 with MT and ZSP and it was not offensive. I did find the article josh mentioned worrisome, basically the car falls apart at 8/10ths though.

[lemming]

There was still more road feedback than in the Tesla :eeps:

Already moved on and bought the Porsche :) Just a bit amused what BMW has become.

not sure i'd ever buy a BMW again....(after the E61 dies).

BMW has become more Buick than I prefer in the past 5 years.

reviews like yours remind me why I feel this way.

[rumatt]

This thread is so depressing. :(

I love my car and I always assumed that I'd replace it with another BMW. But over the years I've kept watching Audi's getting better looking while BMW's get uglier. I an accept ugly if the driving experience is there, but reading this thread is the final nail in the coffin.

The last snow storm was also the final straw for me on owning a RWD open diff vehicle. I got stuck in a storm and while the roads were admittedly slick, holy shit even with snow tires it was hard to keep forward traction on the hills. I'm too old for that shit.

So... Audi wagon next for me maybe?

[JST]

Sadly, you'll need to go used for that, unless you fancy the allroad. That's the only Audi wagon left.

[clyde]

Sadly, you'll need to go used for that, unless you fancy the allroad. That's the only Audi wagon left.

When did that happen?

[JST]

When did that happen?

Looks like 2013.

http://www.quattroholic.com/2012/01/audi-usa-replaces-a4-avant-with-new-a4.html

But there was never a stick available in the B8 A4 Avant; TD's manual Avant (is it a 2008?) was the last of the breed.

[Josh (PA)]

This thread is so depressing. :(

I love my car and I always assumed that I'd replace it with another BMW. But over the years I've kept watching Audi's getting better looking while BMW's get uglier. I an accept ugly if the driving experience is there, but reading this thread is the final nail in the coffin.
?

I feel the same way. My hope is our current fleet lasts us at least 5-7yrs. At that point our family situation will be a lot different with the girls off to college, so we won't need a family hauler the size that we do now. I could see replacing the 1 and the 5 w/ used boxsters and macans or the new little teslan maybe that new alfa, or who knows what. In the past it was a foregone conclusion the next gen 3er would be the only car to consider. Now it is so big and boring and so much like the competition that everyone is in play. The only real hope is they get the electric steering figured out for the LCI and new models. If so, then we're just looking at a lost generation of cars, like the 01 3series. If not, BMW lost the market niche that I live in.

[TD]

Looks like 2013.

http://www.quattroholic.com/2012/01/audi-usa-replaces-a4-avant-with-new-a4.html

But there was never a stick available in the B8 A4 Avant; TD's manual Avant (is it a 2008?) was the last of the breed.
Yup. When the Saab left us stranded the second (or was it third time) and we knew we needed a new vehicle, the B7 Avant was already out of production. Ours was the last unsold manual east of the Mississippi. We were really lucky that it was in an acceptable color combo and also had been ordered with the sport suspension.

At the time, the B8s were already announced and we knew we wouldn't be able to get one with a stick.

One of the reasons I'm contemplating an S4 now is that I expect the next generation S4 to also not be available with a stick. I mean, if the S3 doesn't come with one...

[JST]

Yup. When the Saab left us stranded the second (or was it third time) and we knew we needed a new vehicle, the B7 Avant was already out of production. Ours was the last unsold manual east of the Mississippi. We were really lucky that it was in an acceptable color combo and also had been ordered with the sport suspension.

At the time, the B8s were already announced and we knew we wouldn't be able to get one with a stick.

One of the reasons I'm contemplating an S4 now is that I expect the next generation S4 to also not be available with a stick. I mean, if the S3 doesn't come with one...


That's kind of scary, but then again I am heartened by the new Golf R and the Focus RS. I figure one of those has to be acceptable...

[TD]

That's kind of scary, but then again I am heartened by the new Golf R and the Focus RS. I figure one of those has to be acceptable...
I figure I need one appealing car that also has generous rear leg room since my kids are no longer short.

Our A4 Avant is from the days when the A4 (and 3-series) were compact. As we know, today's A4/S4 and 3-series are the size of what the 5-series was not all that long ago. So rear leg room is tight for long trips in the A4.

[nate]

I figure I need one appealing car that also has generous rear leg room since my kids are no longer short.

Our A4 Avant is from the days when the A4 (and 3-series) were compact. As we know, today's A4/S4 and 3-series are the size of what the 5-series was not all that long ago. So rear leg room is tight for long trips in the A4.

The new A4 photos were officially released just today.

Larger, but lighter: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2017-audi-a4-official-photos-and-info-news

[Pinecone]

I instructed at the last FATT in an M4. Very fast car, but BIG, heavy feeling, even as a passenger. NIce, but not to the point of wanting one.

[robg]

I figure I need one appealing car that also has generous rear leg room since my kids are no longer short.

Our A4 Avant is from the days when the A4 (and 3-series) were compact. As we know, today's A4/S4 and 3-series are the size of what the 5-series was not all that long ago. So rear leg room is tight for long trips in the A4.

I wouldn't be surpirsed if the rear legroom in the Golf was similar or better than that of the B8 A4.