View Full Version : 135i will be heavier than E46 M3??????!!
Nick M3
07-26-2007, 12:29 AM
I heard 3,440... Yikes!
Nick M3
07-26-2007, 12:37 AM
Source? :dunno:
Som eguy on t3h intarnets.
isjoining
07-26-2007, 12:54 AM
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_135i.asp
rumatt
07-26-2007, 01:17 AM
:lol:
:(
lemming
07-26-2007, 06:58 AM
:lol:
:(
don't cry, shopgirl.
look at it this way, given the 1 series' portliness (which is sort of appropriate for America), the 3 series is looking mighty fine, isn't it? heck, if that little bulldog of a car weighs that much, the added space and "niceness" of the 335i is very appealing.
don't cry, shopgirl.
OMG, I can't believe how quickly I spotted that quote. My life loves that movie.:rolleyes:
Sobering news and a reminder not to get too excited about BMW products until they arrive in showrooms.
I heard 3,440...
My wiener just went limp. :rolleyes:
undefined
07-26-2007, 10:15 AM
3274
3274
I would be happy with that. :D
Man I am tired of these 135i weight threads on all the boards. I will wait for the official US spec sheet.
Why are all of you so certain that this piece of information is more reliable than all of the other information posted on the web? I don't get it. That weight doesn't make any sense - I won't buy into it until I see something official admitting it.
Nick M3
07-26-2007, 12:58 PM
Why are all of you so certain that this piece of information is more reliable than all of the other information posted on the web? I don't get it. That weight doesn't make any sense - I won't buy into it until I see something official admitting it.
Out of curiosity, why doesn't it make sense? It's not liek the 1 is small, or anything.
Why are all of you so certain that this piece of information is more reliable than all of the other information posted on the web? I don't get it. That weight doesn't make any sense - I won't buy into it until I see something official admitting it.
Even then...
This obsession with weight is just weird. It's like bench racing, only lamer and less interesting. We know that the 135 will not be "light" (i.e., it will weigh more than 3000 lbs). We know it won't weigh as much as the 335. Beyond that, who gives a shit? The "official" number is pretty meaningless, as the actual weight of a given car will depend heavily (har har) on options...and the driver.
And while weight is an important component of a car's performance (and I won't deny BMW's lack of attention to this detail), it isn't the only or necessarily the most important feature. Will a car that weighs 3900 lbs be as desirable as a car that weighs 3400? Probably not. But will a car that weighs 3274 be a whole lot more desirable than one that weighs 3440? That difference is small enough that other factors are going to be a whole lot more important.
The only important thing is how it drives--and we won't know that for a little while, at least.
Out of curiosity, why doesn't it make sense? It's not liek the 1 is small, or anything.
B/c that number is within like 150 pounds of the 335. I know it's not small, but there has to be some difference in weight between the two. It's smaller than the 3 series.
Of course, it could have to do with laden and unladen weights - and European luggage.
rumatt
07-26-2007, 01:25 PM
This obsession with weight is just weird. It's like bench racing.
No, it's not bench racing at all.
1) We already a similar version of the vehicle (335)
2) The 1-er will be smaller and less practical
3) The reason people accept #2 is because of what is gained: being lighter and more fun to drive.
To me, the reason to pick 135 over 335 is because you value light and nimble. If it's not light, then give me a 335. More cheaply built, smaller, and weighs as much? No thanks.
Is it possible that it's not much lighter, yet is still somehow a much better car? Sure, it's possible. But I'm surprised you're dismissing weight as a key difference.
No, it's not bench racing at all.
1) We already a similar version of the vehicle (335)
2) The 1-er will be smaller and less practical
3) The reason people accept #2 is because of what is gained: being lighter and more fun to drive.
To me, the reason to pick 135 over 335 is because you value light and nimble. If it's not, then give me a 335. Is it possible that it's not much lighter, yet is still somehow a much better car? Sure, but I'm surprised you're dismissing weight as a key difference between these two cars.
One other reason is cost--and it should not surprise that the cheaper car is not necessarily a lot lighter than the bigger, more expensive car. Look at the 335 v. 535.
But "more fun to drive" is not dependent on "lighter," especially if the car is smaller overall. A small car can be more nimble than a larger car, even if the smaller car weighs the same. And I've nowhere seen anything that suggests it won't be lighter than the E90--we are just arguing about whether it will be a small amount lighter (150-200 lbs) or a larger amount lighter (200 lbs plus).
I agree with you--it will be hard for me to pick a 135 over a 335, given my practical needs. The only way I could do it is if the 135 is more fun to drive. But I am not going to get worked up over the weight issue until I can actually drive the car and determine whether it is, in fact, more fun than the 335.
EDIT: I am not dismissing the weight issue. I'm just recognizing it's one of many factors. And even if the 135 is "only" 150-200 lbs lighter than the 335, that isn't nothing. Think about what you'd have to do to a 335 to get 200 lbs of weight savings.
I find it amusing that after years of having objections to the weight of modern cars, people are now accepting it, and even coming up with ways to make it sound like "portly" isn't such a bad thing. For the record, I still think it is.
undefined
07-26-2007, 01:41 PM
Out of curiosity, why doesn't it make sense?
because the official number has already been published
rumatt
07-26-2007, 02:16 PM
Why are all of you so certain that this piece of information is more reliable than all of the other information posted on the web?
I'm not certain of anything. I'm just laughing because the weight speculation keeps jumping all over the place. Everyone is sure they're right, but they all say different numbers.
rumatt
07-26-2007, 02:22 PM
One other reason is cost--and it should not surprise that the cheaper car is not necessarily a lot lighter than the bigger, more expensive car. Look at the 335 v. 535.
Not surprising at all, but it's a disappointment. That's the path I was hoping wouldn't happen.
INTERESTING (to me): Smaller, lighter, more nimble.
NOT INTERESTING (to me): Smaller, weighs nearly as much, cheaply built, primary focus is the lower price point to increase market share.
If it's really 200 lbs lighter, that's not too bad.
undefined
07-26-2007, 02:54 PM
I'm not certain of anything. I'm just laughing because the weight speculation keeps jumping all over the place. Everyone is sure they're right, but they all say different numbers.
where are there any different numbers than 1560kg (less 75kg) for the 135i?
lemming
07-26-2007, 06:08 PM
where are there any different numbers than 1560kg (less 75kg) for the 135i?
i agree with the earlier logic that the whole point of the 1 series (to me) is that it's a smaller, more nimble car.
and lo and behold.
i've learned two things today.
the whole LSDiff thing is crap. it's just the stupid "use the rear brake pads" to pretend to be a differential.
the whole weight thing is ludicrous in a car this small. so it will cost less than $40,000USD. so what? it's not much lighter than the E90 and the E90 won't have cost cutter interior bits.
when it comes down to brass tacks and people see how the 135i prices out equipped with "typical" things from the a la carte menu and see that (1) it's not much faster (all around) than the 335 and (2) it's not much cheaper, heck, get the 335. i think the 135i is a small gesture to "us"; but the real reason the 1er exists is for the 128i configuration to sell to the low end of the car market to get people into the BMW car dealerships.
it works in Europe, but we don't have the taxation structure Europe has so i'm not sure this car is all that compelling anymore.
happy to be proven wrong.
"Just get the 335" implies that the 335 is a car that you would at least be willing to purchase. I am not. I like the exterior and especially the interior of the 1 series much better. So . . . well, we will see. It's years off for me anyway. The Volt might be available by then.
Jeff_DML
07-26-2007, 07:40 PM
I am with the "if not much ligher or cheaper" crowd
need to add some weight to the official number since I am guessing we will get the standard sunroof:(
lemming
07-27-2007, 07:51 AM
where are there any different numbers than 1560kg (less 75kg) for the 135i?
so 1560kilos is the number, aty?
where are there any different numbers than 1560kg (less 75kg) for the 135i?
The only problem with this theory is that the UK weights for other models, when converted without subtracting anything for drive/luggage tie to the listed US-spec weights - at least for the 335i coupe. So perhaps all of the US weights are overstated out of laziness. But...
I went to bmw.de and looked at alle technischen daten. The 335i coupe/sedan are listed at 1600/1610kg EU weights. The 330i coupe is 1545kg and the 320i coupe is at 1435kg.
There is some promo blurb on the 1er coupe but no real data. There is however data on the 3-door/5-door hatchback. For simplicity, assume the coupe weighs the same with the hatchback. The 120i and 130i are 1375 and 1460kg respectively. So they are 60kg and 85kg lighter from their 3er counterparts. If we go with the latter number, the 1er is likely to be about 200lbs lighter.
I agree with JST, it's not just the weight. My 528i was not more than 200lbs heavier than my 330's (likely 100lbs) but felt far less nimble. However, there's something to be said for the under-3000lb experience that a nice porsche/s2000/rx-8 can provide. It'll be interesting to see if the 1er gets there.
lemming
07-27-2007, 09:12 AM
I agree with JST, it's not just the weight. My 528i was not more than 200lbs heavier than my 330's (likely 100lbs) but felt far less nimble. However, there's something to be said for the under-3000lb experience that a nice porsche/s2000/rx-8 can provide. It'll be interesting to see if the 1er gets there.
that'd what i'd to see, too. yet, BMW's cars and their weights are confounded by how much effort and money BMW puts into each chassis.
the 530 is almost lighter than the 330 (e60 to e90) because of pricier and more extensive usage of alumin-ee-um. so, using the Bavarian logic, it stands to reason that the 1er would get even less weight savings parts which cost real money at the manufacturing level so it won't be under 3000lbs.
what i think all of this does reinforce, however, is just how good porsche actually is at controlling (actively) escalating curb weights. it's not totally under control, but their focus seems better on weight. and this also highlights the nice engineering work that Mazda did on the rx8 to keep its weight down. funny that the two have in common a notion that lightness actually helps power to weight ratio.
Sharp11
07-27-2007, 09:54 AM
All this and more, including the EU weights of the 335 and 135 can be found in the BMW news thread - why go over it all again?
Jesus guys, start another metrosexual thread or something.....
Ed
Jeff_DML
03-11-2008, 11:59 AM
We've established some baselines with our specific car, which weighed in at 3413 pounds with a full tank of gas, and made 279.4 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque at the wheels.
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/projects/Motive_Long_Termers_2008_BMW_135i.shtml
stuka
03-11-2008, 03:01 PM
Without the weight advantage, or a real LSD. I am thinking 40K buys me many other better cars.
Like E46 M3 or E39 M5 if you stay with the BMW family.
lemming
03-11-2008, 03:20 PM
that's a lot for that little teensy weensy car.
undefined
03-11-2008, 03:40 PM
Out of curiosity, why doesn't it make sense? It's not liek the 1 is small, or anything.
:eeps:
lupinsea
03-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Anyone know if you can swap the 135i's 6-piston brakes on to the 335i? Just how much stuff is shared between the two cars . . .
Also, to me if one is trading off size and utility there should be something your getting in return. . . especially if a car is really climbing in price. In this case I agree with the people who point out the ridiculousness of the 135i as it is currently invisioned.
It's pretty damn heavy to my mind.
It's also pretty darn big for what it is.
And it's seems ridiculously expensive, too, considering it's the "budget Bimmer" 1 series at heart.
So, I can see getting the 135i if it was in the $30k range. But at $40k there are definitely other cars I'd consider. Either 335i for some utility/practicality, or a dedicated sports car if I wanted a speed/handling machine.
But then, I'm not in the market so whatever. :lol:
Anyone know if you can swap the 135i's 6-piston brakes on to the 335i? Just how much stuff is shared between the two cars . . .
Also, to me if one is trading off size and utility there should be something your getting in return. . . especially if a car is really climbing in price. In this case I agree with the people who point out the ridiculousness of the 135i as it is currently invisioned.
It's pretty damn heavy to my mind.
It's also pretty darn big for what it is.
And it's seems ridiculously expensive, too, considering it's the "budget Bimmer" 1 series at heart.
So, I can see getting the 135i if it was in the $30k range. But at $40k there are definitely other cars I'd consider. Either 335i for some utility/practicality, or a dedicated sports car if I wanted a speed/handling machine.
But then, I'm not in the market so whatever. :lol:
I'm sure you can buy a big brake kit for the E46M3 from Brembo or Stoptech for 4-5K.
lupinsea
03-11-2008, 04:28 PM
But what if you could pick up a 6-pot caliper (front) from BMW for ~$300ea (or whatever they go for) and matching rotors for, what, $100?
Might it be possible to do a 6-piston caliper/rotor swap for around $1k using OEM BMW parts?
I have zero clue on BMW part prices for their fancy new 135i brake parts . . . I'm just say'n.
But what if you could pick up a 6-pot caliper (front) from BMW for ~$300ea (or whatever they go for) and matching rotors for, what, $100?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
I see you never really left the Mada world.
I'll be impressed if there are any savings to be had by buying the 135i brake setup. As to whether they will be a bolt-on replacement (or close), I have no clue, but I would doubt it.
lemming
03-11-2008, 05:44 PM
135i:
wheelbase 105"
track 59"
height 56"
e46m3:
wheelbase 108"
track 70"
height 54"
R56 MINI:
wheelbase 97"
track 66"
height 55"
the 1er is pretty dense considering its dimensions. the M3 also has a limited slip differential and an iron block engine!
Jeff_DML
03-11-2008, 06:58 PM
wonder how much less a 2.0L with a single turbo would weigh compared to the 3.0TT?
from what i have read the problem with the 6pot is the rotors are small and thin. Better off probably with a stoptech BBK, probably cheaper too.
lemming
03-11-2008, 07:00 PM
wonder how much less a 2.0L with a single turbo would weigh compared to the 3.0TT?
from what i have read the problem with the 6pot is the rotors are small and thin. Better off probably with a stoptech BBK, probably cheaper too.
my experience with the C6Z06 brakes was that the padlets wore terribly quickly --not that one could extrapolate to this car, but the more pistons, the more padlets and those are pricey little suckers, too.
lemming
03-11-2008, 07:04 PM
can someone explain why the 335i is rated by BMWUSA for 26mpg on the highway (same rear end ratio) while the 135i is only rated 25mpg?
just curious.
Jeff_DML
03-11-2008, 07:18 PM
can someone explain why the 335i is rated by BMWUSA for 26mpg on the highway (same rear end ratio) while the 135i is only rated 25mpg?
just curious.
135 big bulbous front end kills the aerodynamics;)
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/projects/Motive_Long_Termers_2008_BMW_135i.shtml
So... why would anyone want to drop $40k+ for a 135i? Honestly, I rather have a E90 335i and have the extra room. Plus, Centers are discounting E90s, whereas it is MSRP+ for the 1ers.
lemming
03-11-2008, 09:14 PM
So... why would anyone want to drop $40k+ for a 135i? Honestly, I rather have a E90 335i and have the extra room. Plus, Centers are discounting E90s, whereas it is MSRP+ for the 1ers.
that's been my question all along, too.
that's been my question all along, too.
What I find quite amusing is those that currently own 335s moving to 135s.
I need the smiley hitting his head with a hammer. This will have to work... :loco:
Oh... it is rumored BMW AG will only produce 10,000 1ers for the US market this year. Nice way to drive up the demand.
stuka
03-11-2008, 10:54 PM
So... why would anyone want to drop $40k+ for a 135i? Honestly, I rather have a E90 335i and have the extra room. Plus, Centers are discounting E90s, whereas it is MSRP+ for the 1ers.
Now that I think about it, my friend from church's ED 335 is only 37K. Granted it's pretty stripped, but still.
lemming
03-11-2008, 11:41 PM
What I find quite amusing is those that currently own 335s moving to 135s.
I need the smiley hitting his head with a hammer. This will have to work... :loco:
Oh... it is rumored BMW AG will only produce 10,000 1ers for this US market this year. Nice way to drive up the demand.
well, to put it in perspective, i'd rather buy a 135i over:
1. an Evo (35k)
2. an STi (35-39k)
3. a JCWorks MINI with options (35k)
that written, i really think the 1er has odd proportions and i'd personally buy something like a solstice coupe GXP before i'd ever buy the 1er. you know, that whole GM only charges $190 for a limited slip diff gig.
ETC/eDIFF is like when computers use the hard drive as virtual memory. sounds really great on paper, but sucks pondwater in execution.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.