Advice on decent beater

[FC]

My brother in all likelyhood will be attending U. Undiana @ Bloomington to go to law school starting this fall. He will be needing a car and wants to spend as little as possible. He is not a car guy and just wants something to get around for cheap, like under $5K for sure.

My thoughts are:

-Geo Prism (corolla clone for less)
-Civic/Accord
-Corolla/Camry
-Impreza
-Jeep Cherokee (upside is that it's roomy so he can more easily haul stuff and better in winter :dunno:).

Thoughts?

[TD]

If it were me, I'd pretty much stick to seeking out an unmolested Civic. Granted the odds of a manual-tranny Civic being unmolested are much better than a slushie.

[John V]

It's really hard to beat a Civic. The problem is they hold their resale value too well.

The upside to doing a Geo Prizm is that they are quite indestructible, parts are cheaper than Honda parts, they are cheap to buy because they're not as desirable as a Corolla (:lol:), and the seats are actually pretty good for an econobox.

When it comes to beaters, don't be too brand-conscious, just pick the best-maintained example you can find for the money and don't worry if it's a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc... it's just an appliance.

Nissans hold their resale value like crap, so consider an older Altima or Sentra as well. I know from experience that Altimas are very reliable, parts are cheap, and they get great gas mileage.

[JST]

It's really hard to beat a Civic. The problem is they hold their resale value too well.

The upside to doing a Geo Prizm is that they are quite indestructible, parts are cheaper than Honda parts, they are cheap to buy because they're not as desirable as a Corolla (:lol:), and the seats are actually pretty good for an econobox.

When it comes to beaters, don't be too brand-conscious, just pick the best-maintained example you can find for the money and don't worry if it's a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc... it's just an appliance.

Nissans hold their resale value like crap, so consider an older Altima or Sentra as well. I know from experience that Altimas are very reliable, parts are cheap, and they get great gas mileage.

Pre-Focus Escorts are a good choice, too, if you can find one in reasonable shape. I would probably steer clear of early Focii (given the reliability issues that early ones had), but the Escorts are cheaper than dirt and were basically Mazdas underneath.

[FC]

Pre-Focus Escorts are a good choice, too, if you can find one in reasonable shape. I would probably steer clear of early Focii (given the reliability issues that early ones had), but the Escorts are cheaper than dirt and were basically Mazdas underneath.

Good tip.

JV, regarding Altimas, my family had a '96 that was pretty reliable indeed, though fuel economy was abysmal, IMO.

No brand consciousness whatsoever here, hence the prism. Hondas from the mid-'90's can be had for 4-5K but with 150k+ miles. mid-'90's prisms can be had for 3K with 100K miles.

Oh, and my brother doesn't drive stick, so it must be a slushy. I've offered countless times to teach him, with little interest.

[Rob]

Old jeeps will run forever. Or until 200,000 miles when you have to rebuild something or another.

Civics will also last forever for the most part, as long as you replace the timing chain when you are supposed to.

The rest of your options will depend on the specific example, imo.

If it's a slushie, he will almost certainly have to deal with rebuilding the transmission on a high mileage car if it hasn't been done already. It's something you should factor into the cost.

You didn't mention Saturns - that might be a decent option. You can also get a Hyundai in that price range - and it might still be under warranty.

[clyde]

Civics will also last forever for the most part, as long as you replace the timing chain when you are supposed to.

Unless the seller has evidence that the timing chain was recently replaced, I'd go ahead and get that done on any Civic he might buy just to be sure that it's done. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, but it's not that expensive (figure the cost into your budget). They can and do go without warning...and it can really ruin your day...and then you start looking for another car.

[FC]

Thanks.

[lupinsea]

Old jeeps will run forever. Or until 200,000 miles when you have to rebuild something or another.

Civics will also last forever for the most part, as long as you replace the timing chain when you are supposed to.

The rest of your options will depend on the specific example, imo.

If it's a slushie, he will almost certainly have to deal with rebuilding the transmission on a high mileage car if it hasn't been done already. It's something you should factor into the cost.

You didn't mention Saturns - that might be a decent option. You can also get a Hyundai in that price range - and it might still be under warranty.

X2 on the Jeep thing. If they're not played with too hard. The 4.0L I6's do last 200-300k+ miles. No adjustments necessary. They just get noisier as they age (one of the guys in my club has a 4.0L engine closing in on 350k miles. . . no re-building, block's never been opened). And it's pretty easy finding automatic Cherokees. The cargo volume is pretty good w/ the rear seat folded. Plus, if he's involved in outdoor activities, the utility is pretty good. Mountain bikes can fit in the back, same with camping gear, and with the modest ground clearance they have no worries about rough roads. That cargo space would also be of benefit to a college student. Seems like they're often hauling "stuff" around. Milage is good for an SUV (17-19 mpg) but will suck compared to the other cars mentioned.

I've heard from mechanics that the Civic engines are pretty bullet proof but need rebuilding around the 180k mark. Any truth to this guys? Anyone keep a civic for a looooong period of time? Might be something to check into.

Stay away from Saturns. 100% of previous Saturn owners I've talked to have had problems with them. None of them will ever go back to a Saturn. Ashame, really, it looks like a number of new Saturns are really improving. Still, you're looking at the older ones so . . . stay clear.

[John V]

The civics of old would run about 180k before needing valve guides, which isn't an expensive job but it's a pain. Honestly I think if they're maintained with frequent oil changes it's not going to be an issue.

Timing chains don't require replacement, however timing belts do. AFAIK the new Civics have timing chains (Honda is migrating its entire product line to chains) but the older cars have belts. It's a 60k replacement interval. On a honda it's easy and about a $400 job at a reputable shop.

Altimas get great mileage. I have a '96 with ~ 190k on it and it gets 28 when I flog the sh!t out of it. They only get bad mileage when they're not properly tuned up. It was getting around 22-23 before I replaced the faulty knock sensor and reset the timing to spec.

All automatics are abysmal with regard to reliability... so ... have fun with that.

[Rob]

Well, I hesitate to disagree with John about car knowledge b/c he knows a lot more about the subject than I do, but I have personal experience with Honda Civic timing chains, their breaking, and the engine being a heap of junk b/c of it. But it's easy to figure out. If your brother chooses a Civic, look up the service requirements and see what the manufacturer says.

Edit: See, this is why I hesitate to disagree with John. It appears that although the belt was often referred to as a chain, it was really a belt. The "chain" that was used, if there was one, powered auxiliary stuff and doesn't seem to break. I didn't find any reference that Honda was switching over to chains, but I didn't look that long. Fine. Make sure the belt is changed if your brother gets a car that has one.

[kognito]

My Taurus has 51K miles, and we will be wanting to get rid of it soon. (2 or 3 weeks) We put 4 new tires on it when we bought it, and replaced the brake lines a few months ago.

I probably want about 3700 for it. Everything works fine (A/C, power everything) CD changer in the truck isn't working (cartridge jammed)

Only gets about 18mpg because of the HO engine

[stuka]

Oh, and my brother doesn't drive stick, so it must be a slushy. I've offered countless times to teach him, with little interest.

Usually that takes one automatic transmission rebuild to cure, when they get the bill.:cool: :D

[John V]

Some people mistakenly call a "belt" a "chain."

I have not once heard of a newer Honda ('04+ have chains IIRC) breaking a timing chain. But broken belts are very common.

Rob, what year was the Honda that had a chain break on you?

[Rob]

Way before 2004. I think the first time was in the early 90s - a friend's Civic Si broke the *ahem* BELT *ahem*. My friend had it fixed, but the cylinder walls were weakened from the inevitable interference from the break and the block cracked within a month. (After an expensive repair - not a good time). I was involved in that fiasco of repair shop discussions and the belt was always referred to as the timing chain.

Something similar happened to a girl I was dating mid-90s and to my brother in law a couple years ago, but his car was a '95 with 180k miles on it. Both times it was reported to me as a timing chain.

I would think $5k beater meant an older car though. You can't get a '04 for $5k, can you?

[FC]

All automatics are abysmal with regard to reliability... so ... have fun with that.

I'll use that as motivation for him to learn in the next few weeks.

[John V]

I would think $5k beater meant an older car though. You can't get a '04 for $5k, can you?

I wouldn't think so.

Seriously though, Civics are great cars and I wouldn't let a lack of timing belt maintenance stop me from buying a car that was otherwise nice or priced right (or both). If the owner doesn't know when it was changed, just take it somewhere and have it changed. On a Civic (unlike a Jetta as I've learned (the hard way)) it's a pretty easy job so it should be cheap.

[blee]

+1 on the Civic idea. They're appliances, but they're probably the best appliances you can buy.

For something with room, Jeep Cherokees are hard to beat. The auto trannies will last a long time (though probably not as long as the engine), they're tough as nails, and they'll drive through anything. Two major issues imo: they're actually a little cramped inside, and they get crap gas mileage.

[FC]

+1 on the Civic idea. They're appliances, but they're probably the best appliances you can buy.

For something with room, Jeep Cherokees are hard to beat. The auto trannies will last a long time (though probably not as long as the engine), they're tough as nails, and they'll drive through anything. Two major issues imo: they're actually a little cramped inside, and they get crap gas mileage.

Well, I'm considering a Cherokee for myself next year. And I did suggest it to my brother because of the points you mention. He wouldn't drive much (I don't think) except for the yearly roundtrip from Boston to Indiana.

The other good thing is that my dad employs a full-time mechanic at his business. Now, I wouldn't trust that kind of guy to my ZHP, but I sure as hell would let him work on a beater, so my brother will have a full physical done on his car before he leaves.

[DamnYank!]

definitely some form of affordable import. if its got a timing belt, replace it if you can't prove its already been done. UNLESS its got a non interference motor (not sure many of those remain) then you can just drive it until it snaps.

on the jeeps, ya the inline 6 will run about forever. but from experience with many friends having cherokees, plenty of other things will fall apart. electrical, AC, transfer cases, etc etc

OH, and its Indiana University at Bloomington, NOT U of Undiana :P

[FC]

OH, and its Indiana University at Bloomington, NOT U of Undiana :P

Yeah, I knew that.:eeps:

[FC]

Well, it looks like he is going to get a Cherokee. He doesn't really need the fuel economy but he could use the extra room and 4WD.

There appear to be a few decent examples from the mid to late '90's for $3-4K.

[lupinsea]

Cool. The Cherokees are fun. (http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Products.aspx?Cn=188&Pn=2017&XnPath=173,180,188&Vid=5A6D272946128) :speechle:




Seriously though, when you're looking for the right cherokee:

If there is snow that he'll be facing, get the NP242 transfercase. It's the one that has 2Hi, Full-Time, 4Hi, N and 4Lo. There's plenty of traction and good snow handling with the full-time 4wd. And it can be left on if there are just patches of snow.

Otherwise, the NP231 fine. It works in snow, too, but is a more t raditional part-time 4wd system: it's either 2Hi, or both axles are locked together in 4Hi or 4Lo.

[FC]

Cool. The Cherokees are fun. (http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Products.aspx?Cn=188&Pn=2017&XnPath=173,180,188&Vid=5A6D272946128) :speechle:




Seriously though, when you're looking for the right cherokee:

If there is snow that he'll be facing, get the NP242 transfercase. It's the one that has 2Hi, Full-Time, 4Hi, N and 4Lo. There's plenty of traction and good snow handling with the full-time 4wd. And it can be left on if there are just patches of snow.

Otherwise, the NP231 fine. It works in snow, too, but is a more t raditional part-time 4wd system: it's either 2Hi, or both axles are locked together in 4Hi or 4Lo.

Unfortunately it is hard to find select-trac on cheap XJ's. I will look for one with it for myself, but my brother is beign cheap and doesn't want budge from the $4K budget (I say this because he has a full-ride to law-school).

I'll be looking for one myself next summer.